This week, the F2P Cast panel delves into even MORE games charging for guaranteed beta access, an absurd “advanced play” amount of time, and other bits and pieces. We mix in our Weekly Bombs and make a “cash grab” for yours! Sit back, grab and drink, and chill listening to this all new episode!

Free-To-Play Cast is the official podcast (and videocast) of MMOBomb.com about free to play multiplayer online games. Free-To-Play Cast takes on the week’s biggest news with plenty of opinion, weekly bombs, community feedback, guests, interviews, laughs thrown in for good measure and much more. Have fun and expect a new episode next week! (every Wed or Thu)

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  1. Empire2x2 on October 4, 2012

    good episode, i think most of games want some cash early. they think they must get cash (milk the cow) quick, but then the “cow” dies.. so no profit at all!

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  2. Lance Williams on October 4, 2012

    i completely agree its fckn stupid how they charge to get into betas now a day and the miss is right they dont get the reports they need

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  3. Sighphi on October 4, 2012

    These arguments against paying to get access for beta were tremendously horrible. “People paying to get in dont report bugs.” Huh? Pretty sure they would be one doing this the most since they dropped some cash on that. “90 day early access means the game is ready.” Huh? Can i see this list of how many days before launch a game is completely ready to launch?

    And by the way…. it’s not pay for beta is paying for a package of things that includes beta. If people are just using it just to get into beta and dont care about everything else that’s their view of things but is really not the actual case.

    Unless this stuff is required to get into the game there shouldn’t be any problem. This is MMOBOMB for god’s sake, you guys give out keys for everything as well as other sites…. why does anyone care about some people wanting to pay for stuff?

    This is exactly the same silly arguments that were going around when special/limited edition first started to become a norm.

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    • Magicman on October 4, 2012

      I am a bit confused here because you seem to be mixing and matching points here without regard for points that were in fact made.

      1) What list would you like to see? Plain and simple if a company is willing to let you in 90 days ahead of launch and they treat it as OFFICIAL game access, the company views the game as ready 90 days ahead of launch day. They held back a free product (talking about Wushu here) in order to try and charge you for 90 days.

      2) We made the specific point that Wushu’s particular package had extras AND beta access. We also said if you were buying it for a collector’s set, or a physical copy, then fine. This discussion on this particular game doesn’t apply to you. The broader point of other games simply charging for beta access holds true on other games.

      3) We didn’t make the point of people that pay do not report bugs, we made the point that people who ONLY play in betas to say they played it early usually do not report bugs.

      4) Finally, you sum up our points nicely actually. We give most of these things away on our site and other sites do as well. Why is anyone actually paying for then at all? If people weren’t, companies simply wouldn’t do it. The reason that you should care (or at least be curious) is that if enough people pay you will stop seeing so many giveaways. When companies know they can profit off of you actually doing them a favor and testing their unfinished product they will always chose that route.

      The argument is also very different from the special/limited edition arguments. Fist off, with the limited/special editions you’re talking about a product you have to pay for either way anyway. Second, you’re talking about a finished product, not one being tested.

      Interesting debate friend! :)
      -Magicman

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      • Sighphi on October 4, 2012

        1. Do all games that have early access have a complete full game during early access? Because i was part of early access for City of Heroes and during that early access there was still things that were not implemented and only came in during full release. Did this practice stop?

        2. I know you mention all the things included but the argument devolved into just paying to get in, because, apparently, that becomes the one thing of any value in the package. And what other games have you pay for beta and not give you a package of things? Because im pretty sure there isnt one game out there that just simply says, “Gimme money to get in.” Am i missing a tremendous section of games doing this? If i am you should have used those as examples.

        3.The angry women i think made a point that the product ends up suffering because the people that buy to get in dont,apparently, do stuff in the same way as the “true” beta testers. That was a big point in the show.

        4. It’s highly unlikely that this will ever happen because at the time of betas your audience are really just hardcore fans. And that will very likely never be a big enough of an audience to properly do all the testing needed. Half of the games i gotten into beta game from friend telling me about them and not because i was looking for them. Unless you are Blizzard it’s extremely unlikely that you would have enough people from just buy-ins.

        You folks are just seeing this as the companies being greedy but you can easily see it a different way. You can easily say that this is just a way to help the game to even come out because they needed those few extra bucks to get it where it needs to be. This is the story of APB; APB didnt fail simply “because it sucked,” It fail because they ran out of cash and they released a truly unfinished product. And lets face it, a lot of these companies now making F2P games dont have huge companies backing them. The big companies are just now catching on to this stuff.

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        • Magicman on October 4, 2012

          Agree to disagree on a lot then. :) I would say that on point one, not having something implemented is a totally different topic. (something like Raids won’t be available until actual launch for example). We are talking about acknowledging your game is ready to go. And yes, CoH beta was quite some time ago, in most early access periods now you see the exact product that you see on launch day. Which is also why most “early access” periods are only 3-14 ish days.

          To keep it short I’ll stop there and let others join our interesting chat! :)
          -Magicman

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  4. sethsamson on October 4, 2012

    the end is near .

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  5. sethsamson on October 4, 2012

    retort to a Damina talking about getting crappy end product … War Inc was going to be so superbly created game First PC 3rd person shooter . Then they do these packs of early access to the beta and now War Inc. is soo crappy . because the devs have earned what they wanted, and half of the things that they said will be in game . now we know that their will not .

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  6. Virck on October 4, 2012

    40$ for V.I.P. status, that is how they look at this “release”

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  7. Curst on October 4, 2012

    I have a Da-Bomb for End of Nations. Its 28 vs 28 battles, PvE missions and constant struggle for world domination between two factions are just brilliant. Let’s hope that new Command & Conquer is going to be at least as good. Not only graphically I mean, because Frostbite 2 is obviously more powerful than Petroglyphs engine which they used to create EoN.

    Oh and I have to disagree with Damina on the subject of games getting worse and worse because publishers/developers sell beta access. Sure, beta-testing have somewhat lost its original meaning (although there are companies that still do beta-testing the right way). But it has nothing to do with ability to buy access to beta. In fact I don’t even see it as paying to get in the beta. You’re paying to support development and for that you’re getting some kind of special reward that includes early access to the game.

    The only difference between this and some special edition of p2p or b2p game is that here you’re getting early access to an unfinished game. But that’s just the way free to play games work. They are never truly finished. They continue to grow and change from the first days of alpha to the last days of their existence. Besides… Beta access is not the only thing you’re getting for buying founder’s package. Usually they give you exclusive in-game items and/or currency that are worth much more than you paid.

    And it’s not like players who bought their way into beta can thwart beta-testing in some way. Those who want to get in alpha/beta to actually do the testing always find their way into given alpha/beta. I can say it from my personal experience. The problem is that most companies don’t give a damn about player feedback nowadays. At best they are going to fix a few submitted bugs, at worst they are going to ignore everything you say and use beta for advertisement purposes only. But as I already said, it has nothing to do with people who bought “founder’s package” (or however it’s called in a given game).

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  8. HellcatM on October 4, 2012

    I will not join a beta that expects me to pay to join. A couple months ago I got an invite to FPSMania and when went to the website to enter the beta they wanted $9.99. I then and there left the website. I also hate when games have a cash shop in the beta. I would understand they need to test the cash shop to see if it works, but they could give out free money to do this. To expect for people to pay for a beta is just wrong.

    On that note I have a DABomb for Firefall! The game does need a little bit of a tutorial, when I first started playing I was running around looking for !’s for quests, but later found out you find quests as you walk, run and fly around which once I figured that out its a breath of fresh air. The game is fun and beautiful. As they add more quests and things to do, this game could be the ultimate sci-fi MMO. I know people are looking forward to Planetside 2 (as am I) but I don’t know how its going to beat Firefall, we can only hope it equals it because we need more good sci-fi MMO’s.

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  9. setsua on October 4, 2012

    On the botting this so far, in this day in age in MMO gaming it will not matter at all. Back then it would of been a big deal and people would feel sham. But no it will not matter and who cares for runescape lol.

    PS. You never did E-mail me back lol.

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    • Magicman on October 4, 2012

      I didn’t get your email. I got your message on the last episode saying you sent it and supplied your email address but no email from you :(
      Send again!
      -Magicman

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      • setsua on October 5, 2012

        Ah ok, that is weird i will try to send it again from mine and my wife e-mail account ^_^.

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  10. Neokiva on October 4, 2012

    hiya guys of the free 2 play caste

    Da BOMB for wizardry onlines permadeath now all they need is a skill progression system like skyrim a level system alongside it only have swords (i know irony fun all round) and then it’ll be perfect.
    A BOMB for not having an mmo with flying (angel, fearie, demon w/e self powered flight) that does not limit flying in anyway not being released yet.
    DA bomb for the whole f2p caste cast
    A Bomb For real virtual reality not being invented yet
    A Bomb for Aria games not releasing lime odyssey not launching even though alpha was a year or longer ago.

    A BOMB F BOMB COMBI ATTACK!!!! for every cookie cutter mmo with the balls to change (secret world tried and failed, but i say learn from the fail)
    DA BOMB for damina’s revolution

    hope these are enough to keep you on your toes magicman I don’t want to hear you say there’s no bombs again (i gave mine last time proberly wasnt fast enough)

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    • Neokiva on October 4, 2012

      without the balls the change*

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    • Neokiva on October 4, 2012

      Oh i forgot an A BOMB for no pve f2p fps and no firefall doesnt count because it focuses way too much on pvp and not enough on pve

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      • Rufinus on October 4, 2012

        first of all Firefall is in beta. now that’s out of the way the first thing Firefall focus on was pvp. but now they are developing pve so get your facts straight and read before you start typing.

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        • Neokiva on October 5, 2012

          first firefall is always in beta so that’s mute, and just because they are focusing on pve now doesn’t mean firefall is pve, it will always be a pvp game with a little bit of pve on the side. when i made my comment i was using firefall as an example my a bomb was for the lack of PVE FOCUSED Primary game play in first person shooter mmos . and don’t get riled up over someones opinion

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  11. xcr00k3dx on October 4, 2012

    “Well.. uh.. I don’t like you.” lol

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    • xcr00k3dx on October 4, 2012

      (talking bout Demina’s comment {hopefully I spelled that correctly, if not sorry!})

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  12. NaughtyTangelo on October 4, 2012

    Da bomb for the F2P cast, love the show, shout out from america . USA!!
    And for the question of the week i say you do a TF2 match with zombie dragons flying around, Skeletons pop out of the wall with AK-47′s, Orc’s shooting grenade launchers at you, and then a huge pit of firey death that will steal your soul (and yes the pit is ginger). AND THEN MAKE IT TO THE ULITMATE SHOWDOWN OF ULITMATE DESTINY!!!

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  13. mPascoal on October 4, 2012

    idk since gw2 lauch I haven’t paid much attention to f2p news but one that really got my attention was the annoncement of Black Desert Online
    the game looks good
    so my da-bomb goes for Black Desert Online
    idk if I’m doing this correctly

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  14. Mystika on October 4, 2012

    Paying for 90 days early access?!! That’s a huge deterrent to play the game, especially considering it’s f2p…not even sure I’ll go near Age of Wushu now…so damn greedy.

    Dunno if I should give an A-Bomb to the individual publishers, their games, Nvidia or my own computer, but it’s to do with sudden FPS drops in games like GW2 and Dota 2. It’s really frustrating when it happens, especially in the heat of battle, as it could mean the difference between life or death. Checking out both the GW2 and Dota 2 forums, and I see I’m not the only one with the problem. In fact, the issue is affecting a lot of people with higher specs than me (even those with GTX 670s and higher), or at least higher than minimum/recommended specs. So basically for now, I’ve had to put both those games on hold.

    Like I said last week, betas have lost their meaning. Sure, people still test bugs and such, but with most betas, it’s basically just a trial or early access. Hell, The International for Dota 2…that used a beta client.

    Speaking of betas acting as trials reminded me of GW2′s beta. They pretty much perfected (well as much as they could) the starting zones, but when the game was officially released with the rest of the content, there were a heap of bugs in later areas because they couldn’t be tested in the betas. Here the issue is this: Should beta tests give access to the whole game so all bugs can be quashed or should they only give access to a small amount of content so the rest can be kept for release?

    Last thing, with the 52nd f2p cast being live, will there be a recorded version available still for those that can’t make it to the live podcast?

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    • Magicman on October 5, 2012

      Yep! Just like our previous live show, the recording will still be posted on the site and YouTube. The redcorded version may include edits for time however :)
      Thanks!
      -Magicman

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  15. sweetgamer10 on October 4, 2012

    Da Bomb to Loadout and a A Bomb to APB also known as All Points Bulletin for their constant disconnection problems and etc

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  16. zackwildsrocks on October 4, 2012

    my DABOMB goes to my fav game fallen earth. btw if you gonna do live gameplay try fallen earth

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  17. zackwildsrocks on October 4, 2012

    btw wtf magicman. this podcast you said that you did not like that age of Wushu was charging 10 bucks for beta access.and EVERBODY is so happy that PLANETSIDE TWO is in closed beta and a f2p. but you have can pay like 40 buck for access the beta also. so magic plz tell me whats the diff between planet side 2 and wushu. are people pissed at wushu but not planet. and if so why.

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    • Magicman on October 5, 2012

      I can’t stand that ANY F2P game has a “buy in” option for beta access at al, regardless of title. THat broader general topic was covered on a previous show though. THis week we focusd on Wushu more because of the very weird package put together for 9.99. I personally think there’s no difference between the two :) I wouldn’t pay for either :)
      -Magicman

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  18. zackwildsrocks on October 4, 2012

    fixed version of my question to magicman.

    btw wtf magicman. this podcast you said that you did not like that age of Wushu was charging 10 bucks for beta access.and EVERBODY is so happy that PLANETSIDE TWO is in closed beta and a f2p. but you can pay like 40 buck for access the beta also, same as wushu. so magic plz tell me whats the diff between planet side 2 and wushu. are people pissed at wushu but not planet. and if so why.

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    • KaiserGali on October 4, 2012

      I thought planetside 2 beta was only avaible for anyone with the premium monthly fee from SOE. In other words they actually never charged for the beta since most of those users were already paying it for any other reasons, they just prioritize already oremium/VIP users likea ny other company(even outside mmos) will do. In Age of wushu, this kind of system doesn’t exists at all so sadly, they just decided to take this approach to see if they can get some money to realize mostly if they had any good amount of potential cash shop users(at least for me) in a period that’s supposedly is a test.

      When a company usually asks you to test it’s product its usually free or even they paid you to do so(cbt items on obt in mmo case). With this case though they are now charging for those items as if we the users aren’t doing anything at all, even testiing connection and lag issues or some mistkaes in translation is considered a help in beta but, seems now we need to pay to do that work.

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  19. Reaper5167 on October 4, 2012

    That PlanetSide2 playing in the background is just teasing me =_=

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  20. Rufinus on October 4, 2012

    da… da…. da… da..da …da…da bomb to radierz cant wait for open beta lol.

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  21. Inflictious on October 5, 2012

    Thanks for Another Episode.

    Magicman, Host’s or community,

    Question i have already asked Brim and got his awnser.

    Is Runescape F2P or P2P ?
    Plz explain why you choose your responce.
    For week’s now ever since this Subs are dead has been brought up,
    Why ! Has not one person mentioned this game from 2001 ever been brought up and with the price jump from 5-8$ a month for content after lvl 60 and quests pre lvl 60 ever been mentioned?

    Don’t say Runescape sucks, We all have our opinion’s and truthfully this game is not for me,But
    It has probably as many subscribers paying as WoW doe’s!

    Jagex, I will give them a Da-Bomb for this New feature that i have not seen in any game Ever before.
    No, This will not fix the bot problem and for them i Hope it never doe’s and thus it probably will encourage more bot’s. Why, This feature now give’s players that are maxed lvl and still hang out as a social networking site, Kinda like what you called WoW.
    But now you have some entertainment while chatting to your friends. Love It !

    Inflictious

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  22. qroxta on October 5, 2012

    Yo dawgs, I heard you want bombs, HAVE DEM BOMBS:

    A-Bomb for Gpotato’s Flyff trying to get people back into the game with item giveaways. I created a new character and did not see a single Player Character for the entire 15 minutes derping around.

    Da Bomb for Roit Games and the greatest e-sport event (World Championships League of Legends Season 2) I am lucky enough to witness: HD-Stream on own3d AND twitch in several languages and VODs of all matches. E-sports to the next level? More like: Last thing seperating it from regular sport is massive media presence.

    A-Bomb for Wild Shadow Studios for letting Item Dupers destroy the economy of Realm of the Mad God over many weeks.

    and a final DA BOMB (!) for YOU Mr. Magicman, Sir, for pronouncing my name correctly.

    May your connections be stable

    qroxta

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  23. Akshansh on October 5, 2012

    This Ban botters in runescape for those who care , it is good step but ya there are number of professional botters . But if they will always be there it does not mean not to try to eliminate them. 100% success is impossible but I feel that whatever effect this ban botters thing will do will be positive . Even though it is not discouraging many bots but it will not also encourage. It will have atleast some effect . For those strange people who do not play for the sake of fun and just bot I feel they have gone mad . What are they going to get by botting . Finishing a large game in 1 month and then get bored. The time taken to earn xp and money keeps the interest of the players for a long time . But if you finish it in some days by botting you get bored . so this Ban botting thing will never have a negative effect . It will have a positive effect only (neglegible or not)

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  24. MikeySixGun on October 5, 2012

    I have a DABOMB for tribes ascend, just began playing it and the innovation for the movement there is no other game like it. It is truly a skilled FPS game that takes time to master and I love it!!!!

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  25. Sleeper on October 5, 2012

    What’s next, pay to test new beta of Photoshop? This whole thing is retarded, simple as that.
    It’s like going to a mechanic and he pays to you to fix your car. How awesome is that. It only shows how people can be brutally stupid….ok, mostly nowadays “First!” kids.

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  26. 1ManWolfPack on October 5, 2012

    Another week in the books, another show to be proud of guys! I sincerely thank you for reading my comment on the show. Kind of gave me a shock when I heard my name lol. I love this show, site, and community here, and to let me be some little part of it made me very happy.

    To Magicman: Cheers! Always a beer in hand during the show…….always :)

    I have to give a two part bomb this week, both going to World of Warplanes.

    DaBomb for being really fun to play (with a joystick)

    ABomb for sucking hardcore with a mouse and keyboard, honestly i wouldn’t touch this if i didnt have a joystick. Hopefully they will make adjustments to the controls….fingers crossed.

    As for the RAWRRRRR, I always RAWRRRRR!

    RAWRRRRR

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  27. MasterZixina on October 5, 2012

    First of all, great show as always! I’m always happy to see a new episode every week when i get back home from school! All the information and opinions about games is gold. I have just recently made an account, but I have been watching you guys ever since Spirit Tales came out, huge fan! Any how, I’d like to give a Da Bomb to all of the hosts to the f2p cast for just being so awesome and never being afraid to express your opinions! You are all very awesome and I always look forward to watching your videos even if their isn’t a new episode. keep up the videos and never stop gaming!
    I’d also like to give an A-Bomb to Age of Wushu for waiting till May 3rd to launch the game. It shouldn’t take that long, especially when the game is already developed! I also have to give them an A-Bomb for charging $10 for the beta. Why don’t they just come flat out and say, “By the way, were taking your money to play a game that might not live up to it’s standards, but hey, you get to come in 90 days before everyone else and rub it in their faces.” Sorry for my rant there. :D
    Any way, super happy that I can spend the 1st year anniversary with you guys as a member! Great mile stone for mmobomb and hope for some more epic years to come!
    ~MasterZixina

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  28. Neokiva on October 6, 2012

    I have found the fabled mounted http://mabinogi.nexon.net/Shop/#category=pet&subcategory=pet_cards&itemdetail=Premium:302 the mount that mounts.

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    • Magicman on October 8, 2012

      HAHA! Fantastic!
      -Magicman

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  29. rule907 on October 6, 2012

    Da-bomb for Hi-Rez Studios for announcing that they might release a Global Agenda 2(Finally a word about GA from the devs ^_^) just hope its not $20 to get into the beta and fabulous show as always, and magic man is magical XD

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  30. break15 on October 6, 2012

    no i follow magicman only :D

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  31. sniperman248 on October 8, 2012

    Uhmm if some mass majority of 15 year olds don’t know how to bot then no elementary kid knows how to bot. Plus botters on runescape deserve to be banned. If you have played recently the economy is crap. Plus Major bot makers like Epicbot and Powerbot have already said, if users keep abusing our bot system or we find that they are abusing the programs in which they created that the bot makers stated they will stop producing their botting software.

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    • Inflictious on October 8, 2012

      On Epicbot – I see they ” Sell ” bots for Runescape .. From there buissness point of view.
      Doe’s it really make any sence for them to ever stop of people are buying them?

      Powerbot sell’s them to.

      Both these company’s you can assure are making more money selling the gold and items they gather to.They won’t stop when their fans pay them for the software,The free bot they have is just to get you into botting, then pay for upgrades.

      Peace

      Inflictious

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