F2P Cast: 5 Million Can't Be Wrong (Ep.30)
On this week's show Havek stages a takeover as we strike nerves with the Ouya and Phantasy Star Online 2 hacks. Being topics near and dear to his heart we figured this was the PERFECT show to have him guest host. Try to guess in advance who likes the Ouya, who doesn't, and who is still on the fence, then check out some funny (sorry, it IS funny) hacking in a newly launched game, and then finish it off with the bombs and your feedback.
Free-To-Play Cast is the official podcast (and videocast) of MMOBomb.com about free to play multiplayer online games. Free-To-Play Cast takes on the week's biggest news with plenty of opinion, weekly bombs, community feedback, guests, interviews, laughs thrown in for good measure and much more. Have fun and expect a new episode next week! (every Wed or Thu)
Don´t forget to subscribe to Free to Play Cast via Youtube.
iTunes (MP3 Audio Version): [Subscribe Free NOW!]
RSS (MP3 Audio Version): [Click Here]
Darkblood First Look
Dark Blood is a thrilling new free-to-play action RPG arcade brawler published by Outspark for North America and Europe. To find more about Darkblood check out the game page which includes more info, user reviews, tons of scree...By MMOBomb Staff - 10 years ago
You May Enjoy
Top 5 Free to Play Weekly Stories - Roblox Losses Near $1 Billion & Blizzard Takes More "L"s Ep 544
Monetary losses and public relation losses... companies lost quite a bit this week.By Marlowe Ethos - 1 month ago
Dead Cide Club Gameplay - An Early Access First Look (F2P)
Does a seldom seen side-scrolling viewpoint change up the way a "FPS" game feels?By Marlowe Ethos - 2 weeks ago
Always Online Podcast: Pax Dei MMORPG Reveal Thoughts, AVALON Formed, Embers Adrift Price Change, And Other MMO News Ep 465
New MMOs, new companies, and some familiar faces change prices.By Michael Byrne - 2 weeks ago
Top 5 Free to Play Weekly Stories - Counter-Strike 2 is Rumored To Be Coming VERY Soon! Ep 546
Valve has yet to confirm anything, but it's looking like the rumor is true.By Marlowe Ethos - 2 weeks ago
Top 5 Free to Play Weekly Stories - Saying Goodbye To Zavala's Lance Reddick Ep 547
A sad day for the galaxy.By Marlowe Ethos - 2 days ago
Always Online Podcast: Blizzard Bonuses Cut, More Day Before Drama, FFXIV's Next Expansion, And Underrated MMOs Ep 463
Good news, bad news, head slapping news... it's all on today's show!By Michael Byrne - 1 month ago
or couldve just been hey guys wouldnt it be a great i dea if we could play angry bird BUT ON TV WITH A CONTROLLER basically it will spark alot of peoples intrest and they might just be wasting money but not even no it until about a month later when the realize omg i wasted 99 bucks for this crap well personally i wont by it but it does spark my interest.
P.S. I think you guys should do a relook at ROM for it is really turning into a P2W game for they sell attributes in the item shop along with their grinding system being horrible when it comes to cash. The auction house is in shambles for their are items that are way over priced now. The leveling from lvl 52-56 has gotten worse because when they tweaked the exp with the new update they didn't tweak it properly for areas like savage lands. Also ROM has a dwindling player base on their servers do to many bad decisions by Frogster such as the removal of ABL's. Plus not including their most recent mistake of letting gameforge taking major control over the game client and some other features. As many people now that play are worried that gameforge will ruin the game as they have done in the past with other titles that they have helped greatly develop.
I’ve been watching it since its very first episode but never really got the nerve to comment.
Concerning the weekly question, I’d say that this is a very complex subject and …it’s just relative. Simply put, I consider a game as not Pay-to-Win when it offers a realistic opportunity to exchange time for real USD, in the form of player tradable CS items, while it maintains environmental balance. But, I believe that even this simple proposition carries different tones within different contexts, so let’s break it down:
first, obviously, any cash-shop item has no rarity as it’s defined monetarily rather than by the game’s drop tables, and thus, its price-finding mechanisms are intrinsically tied to the in-game community and economy, notwithstanding its perceived usefulness and/or worth (e.g. an expensive yet purely cosmetic item versus a pricey functional and very-sought-after item), also, the factor of the real price in USD and how tolerant the actual purchasing players are regarding the average Cash Shop pricings;
second, given the real USD price and it’s exchange rate for in-game monetary units there’s a dynamic pertaining to each game according to its rules and community. How hard is it to get ‘gold’ or valuable drops and how big is the income inequality in the game? Income inequality here defined as the surplus brought by supplying on the offer side of high demand items and consequently hoarding in-game currency (e.g. a game with a soft level cap XP boosting items are inarguably the most must-have of all items and usually keep the economy flowing whereas stat boosting, untimed or one-time, gear enhancements and consumables albeit valuable become a second priority – and, naturally, both provide extra income for CS-users and are expenses for the non-CS players) – OTOH, this can be effectively counter-acted by working the AH or valuable drops;
third, and getting to the gist of my critique: the definition of goals for the non-CS user. Any game worth its salt is quite complex and although it may include a few unique good-to-have pieces of equipment, usually, what gets to the core of players and entices them are the consumables, such as, following my previous example, some amulet or pot or scroll for XP boosts – and enchanting/enhancements. Keeping in mind how I defined ‘income inequality’ we come to a very flexible and particular set of behavior for the non-CS user farming capacity in the simplistic formula: extra income for CS-user equals extra time for non-CS. And here lies the making of the game on a f2p model, how burdensome this extra-investment is, for both sides.
Assuming the player’s need (subjective urge) to keep up with the elite characters we must consider the amount and price (real USD and after exchange) of must-haves and differentiate them from the good-to-haves, and the impact of such items in the game environment. It’s easy to make a case that XP boosting is not a necessity but, typically, theory falls apart and this particular item or others with similar purposes (buffs and chance enhancing) usually become a fixed expense for most players (CS’er real USD cost on purchases / non-CS’er in-game currency). Or that one piece of equipment on special sale offers unfair stat increase, nonetheless, if it can be bought from other players it’s another matter of choosing your priorities.
And with this in mind, a scenario that includes the average budget of seasoned players – that (on a reasonably balanced game) should be working with a decent amount of gold, probably, along some enchanted rares and other valuables – everything comes together and a really good f2p system would even carry some resilience against one or two unbalanced items down to the overall health of the economy that transpires the in-game and comes to real life on actual transactions trough the Cash Shop. Yes, there are examples of thriving economies on established games that got broke by plainly stupid developers choices – inclusion/creation of items for the higher leveled characters or, especially, for the ones at the level cap (where it hurts the most) -- but, normally, one can perceive the dynamics of a particular game very early on. It’s not entirely about one or two special items for sale on the CS, but the synergy between all of its offers and the in-game drops.
And two final points,
there are playable games that aren’t fully Pay-to-Win yet have a two tiered population, elites and second class denizens -- that get on by hanging around each other and can have a great time, but are denied of participation in anything related with that ‘upper class’; which can be really hurtful for playability of hardcore mode dungeons or specially designed world bosses …that get all the good loot… or pvp… what furthers their path down the social ladder making them ultimate providers of pots and scrolls for that elite;
the exclusively cash shop items – untradeable or bound -- is also an entirely different animal. Fair or unfair could be discussed in terms of how big the boost on stats are, or if it’s timed or not, or one-time functional. I would agree with anyone arguing that it’s another tough subject, but, in this particular case, I’m very adamant in saying that any honest f2p model absolutely has no exclusive cash-shop anything. If it exists, anyone that plays a game under an f2p agreement should have the chance to farm gold or whatever to exchange for it. And games that offer specialty dungeon passports or keys or whatever, or exclusive zones, just shouldn’t be played. They’re not f2p but simply demos.
Greetings from south of the equator (Brasil),
And keep up the good work.
Question of the Week:
I think that pay 2 win is when you can't the full game for free (like Lotro or DDO) or that paying simple gives a huge advantage, like extra 50% drop rate in a game where you have 0.01% of getting a good item THAT DROPS FROM A BOSS THAT SPAWNS EVERY 11 HOURS (Ragnarok, iam looking at you)
Well, Da-Bomb for Aion, great game, not pay to win in my opnion, its the first game that i played that let you upgrade your inventory and warehouse for free, and decorate your house for free.Also it have a great lore and cool systems, like the PvPvE Abyss.
A-Bomb...Dammit, i got soo many :) let me see:
DarkBlood for that cheap Ad (if you dint see, its a naked chinese girl playing the game)
OutSpark for being so much gready
PWE for being gready²
DC Universe, for content-block
Sony in general for being gready³
*Insert gready company name here* for being gready (dont you say?)
God, so many greed in this place :D
First I'm in full agreetment with what Magicman stated about pay to win and also a Million DA-BOMBS to the remarks made by Dread458.
Second ; with most that can wait for RaiderZ to start up too thks very much to u all at MMOBOMB for the Beta key to it too .
Third ; Onemanwolfpack u have good points too as well as many others on here .
The A Bombs goes to those who always seem to put others down or call them names about their point of view. And I STATE THEIR POINT OF VIEWS ,AS WELL AS THOSE WHO JUST DO IT TO GAMES WITH OUT EVEN TRYING THEM ,BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THEIR CUP OF TEA !!!
fourth and finally ;
I love all at MMOBOMB since I have been a member now . KEEP UP THE GRAND WORK U ALL. GET DA-BOOM TOO!!!
for this weeks question my definition of pay to win is that if an item or service isn't available in game, but available in the cash shop and that item either significantly boosts stats that no in game item can equal or best (at it's lvl) or gives you more of exp or gold that would take a day or longer to accrue in game even with efficient farming then that's pay to win. If that item or service is really expensive (i'm talking to you gpotato) then i will call it being an idiot to win, because if you cant win and choose to pay that much then i think you'd need your head examined.
Pay-to-Win... for me that would be anything that gives an avantage that can't be obtained without spending money. So I agree with Magicman's definition of a Pay-to-Win game.
The HTC Evo 4G was released 2 years ago. It had 1GiB of internal storage, 512MiB RAM, and a 1GHz Snapdragon processor. It's successor, the HTC Evo 4G LTE hasn't even been released and has a 1.5GHz Krait dual-core processor and 1GiB of RAM with 16GiB of internal storage. A phone that hasn't even been released has half the cores of the Ouya. 8GiB is a lot of internal storage considering most phones have more (e.g. HTC Evo 4G LTE's 16GiB) to store music, videos, sounds, and documents. 8GiB is plenty of storage for any number of games that would be built for the Tegra processor. This device not only has a four core processor, it's nVidia's Tegra 3 processor, the latest and greatest in mobile gaming processors. This is the Voodoo 3 of mobile integrated CPU/GPU combos. The specs on the Ouya are approximately equivalent to that of the Asus Transformer Prime, costing $500, or the Acer Iconia Tab A510 which is around $400. This device is all the power of the latest and greatest Asus tablet for a fifth of the price, and a much larger screen.
Furthermore, this WILL be a revolution in the gaming industry. With Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo placing hefty restrictions on game production (until the Xbox Indie market and Nintendo's Wii store, and even then...) independent developers have had a very rough time producing video games. Rovio was a nothing, essentially three kids fresh out of college, until they came up with Angry Birds. A gaming concept done thousands of times before in Flash games, and thanks to the openness of iOS and the Android Market/Google Play Store they became a household name. An independent developer went from nothing to a household name simply because iOS and Android ushered in a new wave of gaming potential. Since then independent developers everywhere have had their chance to bring their great ideas to the masses, and Android was the reason. iOS may have been a few years it's senior, but Android perfected what they refused to perfect. Now, with Android phones dominating every other mobile OS *combined*, you see how powerful openness is. This is the next logical step. There is no reason why Android cannot host games just as powerful as those that run on the Xbox 360 or PS3, save the advancements in hardware Sony and Microsoft have had to their advantage. Already the Ouya is essentially as powerful (if not moreso) than the Playstation 2, and the concept alone is nipping at Sony and Microsoft's heels.
So yes. This *is* "fight the man." If Apple had it's way, powerful smartphones would have been a very expensive luxury for the elite, and the rest of us would be on J2ME. And even now that Apple's iOS devices have gotten a bit cheaper, there are still the massive restrictions Apple places. A chokehold on the mobile market that only Android could break. And if Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft had their way, no game would ever be made without their explicit permission. Licensing fees to fund the CEO's yachts, and restrictions and red tape to shut out anyone without the potential to make the big three's pocket's even further stuffed. Not only that, but Android is progressively making PCs less useful. In the future, Android could be the OS that takes over Windows. Who knows, right? Who would have thought Apple's reign would have been taken down by a Google-backed Linux-based OS? And yet it happened. And even still Android games continue to cut into the profits of the big three's console dominance.
Havek is an idiot and it will be hard to respect a single word he says from here on out.
I've got both an A Bomb and DaBomb for the same game.
Both go to SMITE
DaBomb for making a MOBA actually worth playing.
(This, coming from a 2 year vet of LoL)
A Bomb for taking all my damn money. I just gotta have those skins!
Question of the Week: What does pay 2 win mean to me?
Pay to win means simply this: Without spending real currency you will never be able to compete at top tier pvp, and or dungeons without first sinking cash. I'm a junky for cosmetics and am more than willing to pay for them. Just don't make me pull out my wallet due to rage during pvping!
P.S. - Havek, I've got your back against MMOHut. I can't put my finger on it, but i just don't like them.
The talking had switched to MMObomb vr's MMOhut.
After this get's aired, You now have recruited Spunkify,
Guess he got scared and wanted to join the winning team.
Nice move, Anyone else we need to flame or call out to steal more hosts!
P/S: Sorry for my bad English. Greeting from VietNam
Normally I'd say that if anything that makes you stronger can be ONLY bought in cash shop it is a p2w; however, I guess the main point to judge a game on whether it's a p2w or pay to enjoy is to actually see on what level the things in the cash shop affect you. Will you be doing PvP if it has no rewards, while you can buy some kind of boosts for PvP? If not then it doesn't concern you. PvE can generally be done without any special cash shop items, with an exception of some games where drop rates or exp rates are microscopic, and those are usually very heavy on grinding. Also you have to see what's the value of in-game currency in terms of real cash, if it is too hard to obtain then it turns into pay to enjoy.
Anyway, great show as always.
Magicman! Question of the week answer: Pay to win is as you said with one exception (there always are...*whispers*). Not being able to get something or a feature that is a key to you performing at 100% (supposedly), but mostly pay to win is a world conspiracy designed by S.H.I.E.L.D. to balance the forces in the universe... I'm talking about games (yea i still am) - a game must have people that play games and pay for every freakin thing (like carrot costumes and such), trolls that whine about not being able to play right because they don't have a carrot costume or a sea star diadema to make them look like barbies. Of course there must be normal people who accually use their brain and not pay a cent for things like that (like myself) and still develop their playstyle according to the things they can get "freely" (you all know that saying: "Time is money" right?).
P.S. I'm sorry i wanted this answer to be somewhat trollish to all the bad players around the world that always whine about getting harrased in games by people that pay for gear and stuff like that and donators that get bonuses and such. This is absolute cat dung... I im 20 years old and i play games (specifically computer games - consoles... blah...) since im 4. NEVER have i ever payed a dollar or an euro for a game and i have always been in the "Really-really good players" and in my opinion pay to win system is made to make the noobs with green (or yellow for that matter, beats me) don't stop playing the game when they get beaten by a guy like me that has a little above the average gear or stats or whatever. Sooo, yea... Really?
Awesome episode IMHO. Keep them up and coming so we can all enjoy Haveks' Bombs!
P.S. I wish RaideZ was going into Open Beta next month... Can't die in C9 (on purpose) and i'm looking for something more challenging!
A bomb to outspark, they made a new game called dark blood but yet they still haven't came around to fixing divine souls.....
F bomb to SOE- their kid games suck, honestly the only reason why free realms and clone wars adventures are around is to give SOE money... Hopefully that money goes into making planet side two.. (P.S don't make games for kids if all your gonna do is steal their parents money)
People just are to lazy to hack and crack their own Android phones and tablets and probably they dont have skills to do it either. Thats it.
They buy, attach it to the TV and play. It's easy
I guarantee that even if you will post 12 steps on how to get your Tablet working with a controler , they will choose to buy the console :D
So, to sum it up, if anything that influences gameplay is only buyable with real money, then the game is pay2win. Now, reading this, don`t you feel like there are now even less not-pay2win free2play games?
Which comes from here
Plus, there are some great games on my tablet I'd love to play using a controller (Zenonia being one).
But honestly, if I had a controller for my $600 Tablet that I already own, I would just play on that through the HDMI.
Actually, there's a question. I wonder if the HDMI on the OUYA will use HDCP?
TL;DR: OUYA is not an Angry Birds console.
Wow, such a wall of text and I haven't even given a bomb or answered the weekly quetion, should I just devide the comment into chapters? :D
Anyway, A-bomb to the guy who thinks there are no great free2play FPS games out there and DA-bomb to Tribes: Ascend, Team Fortress 2 and my favourite, Blacklight: Retribution.
I have the exact same view on it as you Magicman, I do not consider time vs. money pay to win. However, I think games like Combat Arms, that are just blatently pay to win, as the best guns are available for cash only, can still be fun even if you are not paying, because at the end of the day, the best gun won't do you much good if you can't aim it properly.
the other free to play mmo sites got togther and made like a record book for free to play games
telling dos and donts of cash shops and advertising the best free to play mmo . just an idea. great show magicman .