F2P Cast: Havek Hates Dailies? (Ep 44)

On this week's new F2P Cast, we compare current free to play games to WoW, Havek goes off on Mists of Pandaria, we chat about NeverWinter's newest trailer, and throw in a splash of Everquest Next. With your feedback and Weekly Bombs it's a show full of opinions galore!

Free-To-Play Cast is the official podcast (and videocast) of MMOBomb.com about free to play multiplayer online games. Free-To-Play Cast takes on the week's biggest news with plenty of opinion, weekly bombs, community feedback, guests, interviews, laughs thrown in for good measure and much more. Have fun and expect a new episode next week! (every Wed or Thu)

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Discussion (35)

Kexo 10 years ago
Everquest is a huge brand name. It resonate with a lot of MMO old schoolers and SoE better not fail with this release.

setsua 10 years ago
I would go with game B

daikon raddish 10 years ago
I have a question, does anyone remembers firefall?

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PuddingBearzzz 10 years ago
I think Havok is rt about the monthly update.

I have a twofer McDoofer for my bombs. I have a A-Bomb for Aeria Games Born To Fire that is just wow why would they even plan on making a closed beta when its highly unbalanced and the hitbox system is complete rubbish.

sorry to be negative Nacy but my other A-Bomb goes to Creyteck What the heck are they doing. :/ The game has been released in China and Russia already when the game was scheduled to release in in NA several months after chinas release. Now they have the KR version already in CBT at Nexon KR...So does this mean WF is going be Nexon NA game?

Denato 10 years ago
Hey for the question this week i don't think it's a little too late for planetside 1 to go free to play. Look at EQ and EQ2 they did it like that and i'm pretty sure EQ still has a somewhat decent community. It's gonna have those people who subbed to the game in addition with a few curious people who never played the previous game.

hukbalahap 10 years ago
Just a quick comment about the fast track server in Aion.

Its a shared channel for all server in Aion NA where you can get extra xp and it is available for players lvl 50 and below but there are certain maps where the channel is not available. Broker house and any kind of trading is not available in in that channel so that money movement does not get affected in all four server. Players who play aion NA goes there to avoid enemy faction attacking them because there is no rift on that server while players who want kill players in enemy territory or attack players in their own territory then they stay in the standard server. Its like turning ON or OFF open world PVP

BullsI 10 years ago
Howdie F2P Cast. You guys do a great job on your shows and I very much enjoy listening to them.
I have a theory about the "WoW killer" everyone seems to want or expect. To preface, I don't disagree with LoL not being a WoW killer, however I don't necessarily agree with your justifications as such. Yes, LoL and WoW are completely different games. However, if the release of LoL had a significant impact on the subscription base of WoW users, then this justification does not stand. The definition of a "WoW killer" in my mind is a game that pulls the WoW user base in to such an extent that WoW itself becomes a shadow of its former self. I don't believe LoL accomplished this so it is not a WoW killer. The style of the game itself is irrelevant. Now, as to why there has not ever been a WoW killer. I think the answer to that question is quite simple. The gaming companies are trying to compete with WoW by using WoW as a basis. The term WoW clone is not unfitting to quite a few games. Most games follow a generic mmo format that we've seen time and again. For all the "innovation" and additions that have been made in some games, lets face it, it's still the same game. I think this is most evident in stuff like RaiderZ. The game itself is generic MMO, just with a different combat style. I think to truely kill WoW a game must come out that completely frees itself from that base outline that mmo's have. To kill WoW, the game must be so unique and different than WoW that comparisons can't be made. The trick though, is that it has to appeal to WoW players. A very interesting problem imo.

Random side comment. If John Smedely ends up being right about SWTOR being the last P2P AAA title, I wonder what model Elder Scrolls Online will take?

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Kr4n3ly 10 years ago
First time listener. I actually emailed Magicman a while back when I first joined the site and he recommended I come listen to the show. I wont lie, I was a little intimidated by the length of the show being over an hour, but I definitely enjoyed myself. I found myself laughing out loud, which I rarely even do while watching my favorite shows. Now I want to hit some of these subjects.

Needing a WoW killer? No, it can handle that itself. I can't count the amount of times I logged onto WoW and did nothing but fly around town or jump in circles while talking to guildies. After you do all the big raids and grinded all the dungeons all that is left is getting the best armor, but what good is that? I want the best armor so that I can fight the biggest boss, not so I can move my way up on wow heroes or some other site that shows progress. WoW will always hold a special part in my heart and I wont say that I didn't enjoy my run, but that is just it I had my run and I am done.

For Everquest Next, I want to see what they have to offer. They are talking big and I want to see someone finally follow up on it. I would be willing to try Everquest 2 if the limitations weren't so unenchanting. I for one don't like to see classes and races locked. Content being locked is less of a deal to me when diving into a game then my character customization. If I see that I can be a Goblin Monk then I want to be that. You slap a label that prevents me from doing so I am going to turn away.

Now NeverWinter. I have played DDO a bit, and as much as I did play I loved it, however I wish it wasn't so limiting on creation. NeverWinter looks promising. I don't recall who said it, but I too am a little eerie about the whole "Perfect World Entertainment" logo being slapped on it. All that aside, it looks like a damn good game. I am huge on the whole fantasy genre, who doesn't want to kill dragons and conjure magic while in the safety of your own home in boxer shorts eating a burrito? I for one am all for it.

Free to play models.......... sigh...... where do I start? Okay lets look at SWTOR. I for one love me some Star Wars, and the idea of making my own character in the Star Wars world is amazing. Would I pay for it? No. I doubt I will ever go out and pay for another MMO. Now they have this piece of shit idea they call a "free to play" model. More like "Free to wish". We might as well make birthday cakes, put them on a table, and allow people to eat the type of frosting we put on said cakes. Free to play my ass. If I were to convert a pay to play model to a free to play model I would do exactly that. Too many companies just make a watered down version of the game in hopes that some day the people that join the game will subscribe. If you offer 10 races and 10 classes for creation then make them all available. If you offer 40+ dungeons and 10+ raids make them free to play. Now if you offer special mounts, hairstyles, cosmetic clothing and a housing system make that shit cost money. People like that stuff. WoW is a sub based game and they still make money off of pets and mounts. If you are going to have any kind of subscription make it a luxury and not a necessity. $10 a month and you get ___ points to spend in the shop and access to Beta Servers. Possibly even sub based accounts have access to some form of an alternate play area with content that doesn't transfer over to the original play area. More like fun optional things that people pay for. Or even just add things where people can pay to make leveling faster. I could care less if someone got to level cap before me, I more or less care if that person is better than me at level cap because he has more money.

Anyways I am ranting and I am sure your tired of reading all this.... however I do have a question. I want to know, what can I do to possibly help MMoBomb?? I do intend, after I get settled in life and have a better computer and better equipment, I would love to do some reviews and/or just make some videos about my take on the MMO industry and how I view the games myself. All in all, what can I do right now to help you guys out? I would love to put back into the community for all you guys do for us viewers/listeners. :D

well, keep up the good work guys and I will see you on the servers. (haha Magicman, your awesome)

Gothic 10 years ago
I would like to give a Da bomb for Requiem memento mori, I am sick and tired of all the cutesy mmo's out their. I don't want to kill fluffy jelly bunnies I want to kill scary goblins and zombies. The more blood shed is the more monsters dead.

jonathon82 10 years ago
No, its not too late for Planetside 1 to go F2P IMO because I finally got me a damn Planetside 2 beta key and its too choppy becuase of my damn processor is too dated :( lol Havoc, nobody wants to follow you on twitter of Facebook your too mean haha jk

MaxHavok 10 years ago
this is what i have to say..and all im going to say about EQ@ and sony...... fk you guys..seriously. why did you have to steal the merch idea from swtor...anyone try to get a party going lately?? and forget getting a p2p player to team up with a f2p player. you guys essensially took the best mmorpg since doac and wrecked it...cant even finish my heritage quest...and tho i wasnt a sub p2p player i did buy a bit of this and that every once in awhile. besides my unpaid advertising of the game..you guys messed up :0P...i may play again at some point..but havent played or bragged about the game since the change...death to all mercs!!!!

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LordHikaru 10 years ago
Myself personally, if I don't got to buy the box, I will certainly at least play through SWTOR with atleast one character for the story. We'll see what happens afterwards lol. I'm not really a big fan of the restrictions either, but what do you really honestly expect? lol.

I'd like to give an A-Bomb to Silent Hill Revelations 3D lol. Yes to a movie. I went and saw it today... and it was good.. but it wasn't as good as the first. At least it didn't have the same affect on me the first movie had. Probably because its hard to top barbed wire rape(no I'm not a republican lol). If you don't have a 3D TV at home or anything and you really feel you want to see this in theaters, go ahead. But if you do, I don't suggest spending the 15 dollars like I did(yeah seriously) to go see it. Wait til you can get on Netflix or whatever you use lol.

I'd also like to give Raiderz both a DaBomb and an A-Bomb. DaBomb because I'm really enjoying playing my Cleric and the experience during OBT has been very good so far. The A-Bomb because there NO IGNORE LIST. Being in town is so annoying because you got gold spammers you can't block, or at least I haven't been able to yet. Shame on them for not adding it.

Oh, and I played a little Hawken earlier for a little bit... I honestly dunno how I feel about it. It just feels like a FPS in a mech. Maybe I just need to play it a little longer. It just doesn't give me that spine tingle I get when I play Mechwarrior Online since it feels a little more authentic as a mech game... Maybe I'm just a little biased since I'm a long time Mechwarrior fan. I'm trying lol.

Anyways, great show again. Will tune in again next week.

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Inflictious 10 years ago
Another Great Show Sir !

To Selfius... Dang Dude, Battle Pet !

While I expected that I would need to run out to Elwynn Forest to find wild critters to fight, I didn't even need to go that far. As I flew over Stormwind, green paw icons began appearing on my minimap -- there were Stormwind Rats to battle right within the city.

There is your Rat quest.... :D

As for the Game A or B

I would play A , Reason :

Like most F2P game's since they don't have alot of update's i get bored and move on. The consitent update would keep my attention more. Guildmate's always become my community.



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Alirezametalhead 10 years ago
I guess most of people go with the Game B , its the community that gets people to play more together than the game itself (imo) , For example i used to play WoW with my longtime friends just to enjoy the group work.

Great show guys , keep it up

Mystika 10 years ago
Game A vs Game B....well personally I already have Game D (Selfius or Havek took Game C), but out of those two, I'd say Game B slightly edges out Game A...if the community has gone to crap, resulting in you solo playing most of the time, you might as well play a single player game. That being said, I'd still probably play Game A as well.

With Planetside 1 going f2p, I believe its a little too late...honestly, unless the original is far different from its sequel, the first title should always go f2p first.

zack 10 years ago
gotta give me A-BOMB to you know it those sweet ass GUNNAR glass. did not do giveaway i bought some. there kick ass they look cool and now i can do and all nighter playing hawken closed beta. also gonna give a DA-BOMB to ever mmorpg that does not have some sort of char customization.

lightkor 10 years ago
Oh, I almost forgot to answer the question that was asked.

Choose only A or B:
A. Play a AAA game that gets new content once a month and has a bad community.
B. Play an "average" game that gets new content every 2-4 months and has a good community.

Although my heart would go to B, my choice would be A, not necessarily because I feel it's a better choice, but because I really don't have as much time anymore to play games (work, gf, etc.).

I associate "community" with guilds because that's the main method of communicating on a regular basis and in a meaningful way.

A while back, I was playing the PS3's version of DCUO. I joined a League (DCUO's equivalent to a guild), did a lot of stuff with my leaguers such as repeatable quests and participating in as many raids as I could, and sometimes hanging out with a few of them and just talk. It was a great League. It was great community. I think that's how a community should be.

Unfortunately, I no longer have the free time for that. My character was at the point where I needed to participate in the higher tiers of raids in order to get the better gear I needed to improve, and those raids can be quite frustrating and time consuming. That means having to be available for the raid schedule.

My point is that a person choosing B would be one who has the time to interact with the community.

I haven't been playing any MMO recently, but hypothetically, I'm choosing A because I don't have the time to dedicate to MMOs anymore. If I have the time to play any MMO (and that's a really big IF), I'd want to go in, experience what I can with what little time I have, and get out. Community would be irrelevant to me in that regard.

Though I'm not currently gaming hardcore like the rest of you guys, I still consider myself a gamer since that was my main hobby for most of my life.

I usually watch F2P Cast while having lunch (usually on a day off). You guys are my main method of being up-to-date with anything gaming-related (I didn't know about that fapping incident until Havek mentioned it), so keep up the good work!

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Atomsk 10 years ago
Hey MMOBomb Squad, first time posting, long time listener. What compelled me to do my first post here is your WoW talk at the end of the WoW killer and what not. Also remembering how one of you said "WoW is killing itself" i completely agree with this statement, i was expecting MOP to be a good X-pack for WoW and a good change up, but once i hit 90, only in 2 and a half days of MOP's launch, i progressed outward and saw more of the MOP content, slowly realizing that MOP has many many concepts taken from the old BC x-pack (Wows first x-pack). Then saddened by what i had came to see and that Blizzard is still just rehashing content. And hence i unsubbed and just working out my last month of game time with WoW, MOP had me quit faster then Cata which i did not see coming. (Im have been playing WoW on and off since Original WoW). But now with games like Guild Wars 2 out showing us we dont really need to pay a monthly sub to play some generic Theme park MMO, its nice to have that, so if i want a tab target, gear based game, i will play GW2 which i do have, and be content that i can put my 15 dollars toward a game thats worth the it and is acutally not run of the mill, like Darkfall.

So i guess heres my first Bomb ever, This is a Half and Half bomb, not a full F2P bomb either but its at least a MMO gaming Bomb unlike some bombs left by the MMOBomb Squad xD

A-Bomb to WoW for Lack of Innovation and Rehashing old concepts
Da-Bomb to Guild Wars 2 for a Non-Sub based game that gives us our Theme Park needs for a one time Buy.

lightkor 10 years ago
Welcome back, Havek! I was surprised that your bomb wasn't an A-Bomb and it was actually gaming-related in some form. Glad to hear your opinions in an episode regardless.

You brought some very good points concerning why you keep playing WoW despite being aware of all its problems. This reminds me of my philosophy concerning the subscription-based model which I'll try to outline as follows.

The Trap: Why subscription-based model is bad for the player:

1. _Giving your money away_ You are paying monthly for something that you don't absolutely need. It's like you're paying rent, utility bills, or anything else that has a recurring charge. We pay these bills because we have to, not because we want to. Why would anyone choose to pay a bill that we don't have to?

2. _Addiction_ When you pay your subscription monthly, you feel the obligation to play to get your money's worth. This is one form of addiction that keeps you playing and sucks all your time into the game. It also keeps you focused on the game so much that you think about this particular game all the time. Now, you can decide to take breaks, but in doing so, you fall behind compared to the rest of the regular players AND you are not getting your money's worth because no matter what, you're paying the same monthly fee. One day, you may suddenly realize that this is a bad addiction and decide to quit, but... (see the next point)

3. _Bad Investment_ You've already invested too much of your money, time, and effort into this game. This is equivalent to what Selfius said: a bad marriage. Quit now and you lose everything. All it takes is to pay $15/month to keep everything you've invested and the opportunity to keep up with all your in-game peers regardless of whether you like the game anymore and whether or not you agree with the publisher's/developer's business decisions. Most people will decide it's just easier to pay the $15/month and not have to worry about the consequences of losing their "investment" or fall behind, but in doing so, they're only turning a bad investment into a worse one and being stuck in an endless cycle: see my points # 1, 2, 3, then 1, 2, 3, etc.

So why does such a business model exist? It must bring some kind of benefit to someone, otherwise no one would implement it, right? Yes. It benefits someone. It benefits the publishers/developers in the following ways:

1. Your money contributes to their constant profit.
2. Your addiction contributes to their player-base.
3. Your bad investment contributes to their job security.

In short, the a subscription-based model is LOSE/LOSE/LOSE for the player and WIN/WIN/WIN for the publisher/developer.

The subscription-based model still exists because the people who got into it have gotten used to it and have budgeted for it. It has become what's known as their "comfort zone". On may occasions, certain sub-based games have gotten so bad that a large number of players would leave these games. However, their budget of $15/month or more is still there and now they have a big amount of time that needs to be filled by another game. So they look for another sub-based game to fill the void. They already have the budget for it. However, all that means is that they left the cycle in one game and joined the cycle in another game.

Now, to be fair, I'm sure there are certain games out there that offer a value that players feel is worth at least the $15/month (or whatever the fee is) they are paying. In such cases, that's a good thing because it brings something good to the player. Unfortunately, I can't name any because I never wanted to be caught in the trap (I spent my money on console games I liked instead).

None of what I've written above is new knowledge, but it definitely shows how one-sided the subscription-based system can be towards the publishers/developers.

Some players who side on the subscription-based system like to say the following: "It's only $15/month. I can afford it. I spend so much time in this game that it's worth it."

I would have to say that although everything said above is true to that player, they don't explain how his choice of paying a subscription affects the overall MMO industry and even the economy.

My point is that as consumers, the only power we have is how we spend our money. We can keep telling big companies that their products suck, but if we keep buying their products anyway, they'll keep making the bad products. If we stop giving them money, then they'll have to start making products that we like so that they can actually EARN our money, not get it through a subscription-based model that guarantees their cashflow.

Therefore, as consumers, it is our responsibility to decide where our money should go. This means we should stop supporting bad business decisions even if it only costs a few coffees a month. Put that coffee money into a better game and make the better game grow!

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neokiva 10 years ago
ok serious post now you say you don't agree with john about that swtor is the last AAA mmo that's sub based maybe he was hinting that the game Sony plan to launch wont be anywhere near triple A

neokiva 10 years ago
Mounted lol

SvajsAparat 10 years ago

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