I have good news and (I think) bad news for anyone following Perfect World Entertainment and Cryptic’s upcoming MMORPG Neverwinter. Let’s start with the good news. Closed Beta dates have been announced. Cryptic will be running with the all too familiar “beta weekends” format. Here’s a breakdown of the dates and who gets to participate directly reported on by the Neverwinter forums:

Beta Weekend 1 – February 8-10:
Hero of the North Founder’s Pack purchasers
Guardian of Neverwinter purchasers

Beta Weekend 2 – March 8-10
Hero of the North Founder’s Pack purchasers
Guardian of Neverwinter purchasers
Torchlight 2 pre-orders
RaiderZ Elite Pack purchasers

Beta Weekend 3 – March 22-24
Hero of the North Founder’s Pack purchasers
Guardian of Neverwinter purchasers
Torchlight 2 pre-orders
RaiderZ Elite Pack purchasers

Other Beta participants – Information to be revealed
PC Gamer promotional keys.
PAX / GenCon / Keys from game conventions and events.
Lifetime members of Champions Online and Star Trek Online.
Community Beta key giveaways through Facebook and Twitter.
Promotional Beta keys on partner sites.
And more!

So I hear what you’re saying. “Magicman, it looks like everyone that bought something is getting in and if you didn’t you’re likely left out in the cold.” True my friends. I’m looking at my PAX key still not knowing when I get to take a peek. All I know right now is that I have “Phased Level” access which means if they need me on weekend one I get in… if not, maybe in weekends two or three. Maybe you’ll get VERY lucky on some giveaway, but as it is at this moment you still don’t know when that lets you into the game. Granted I can’t really blame them for taking care of people that DID purchase things even if I don’t like the idea of buying into a beta in general. They opted to cater the weekends to those that shelled out money. Fine, I get it. Let’s move on to what I think is the “Bad News” (feel free to disagree as always though).

Let’s say you want into beta BUT you have not given PWE or Cryptic any of your hard earned cash yet. Yep! Enter the trusty “Founder’s Pack” pre-sales that are quickly becoming common place. Neverwinter will have three Founder’s Packs available for you. However, only Option 2 and Option 3 actually include Beta access!

Here’s the breakdown on what you get:

Option 1: Starter Kit: Cost $19.99 USD (Valued at $49.99 USD)
-Adventurer’s Helper Pack – Contains Six Different In Game items
-Small Bag of Holding – 12 Extra Inventory Slots
-Amulet of Protection – In Game Item
NOTE:This pack does NOT include guaranteed Beta access!

Option 2: Guardian of Neverwinter Pack: Cost $59.99 USD (Valued at $149 USD)
-Access to all three beta weekends
-Three-day head start access to Neverwinter Open Beta
-Unique ‘Gold Moonstone Mask Regalia’ head piece
-Unique ‘Armored Horse’ mount
-Unique ‘Direwolf Companion’
-In-game and forum ‘Founder’ title

Option 3: Hero of the North Founder’s Pack: Cost $199.99 USD (Valued at $549 USD)
-Access to all three beta weekends
-Five-day head start access to Neverwinter Open Beta
-Beta Weekend Friend Invite code
-Exclusive access to ‘Menzoberranzan Renegade’, a Drow playable race like the legendary ranger Drizzt Do’Urden, complete with unique racial abilities and tattoo
-Unique ‘Armored Spider’ mount
-Unique ‘Panther Companion’
-In-game and forum ‘Founder’ title
-VIP Game Access to skip-the-line and get priority log-in access
-Immediate Access to “The Foundry” (as opposed to only getting access at Level 15)

You read that right my friends. $60 and $200 gets you into Closed Beta, early access to Open Beta, and a bunch of extra goodies including a unique playable “race” (not technically a race but you do get special abilities) if you shell out for Option 3!

Think about that for a minute. $200? Here’s a few other Popular MMO items that cost less than $200:

1) EVE’s absurd $70 monocle was a bargain compared to this price.
2) Guild Wars 2 Collector’s Edition was $149.99 at launch.
3) A $15 monthly sub for a game for a year is only $180 if you paid monthly. Most games offer you an additional discount off of that price when paying for 1 year up front.

By now, most of you already know from watching the Free to Play Cast or Ask MMOBomb that the idea of “Founder’s Packs” that include beta access bugs me. I remember a time when I was PAID to beta test games, not the other way around. These choices have drastically changed my positive outlook on Neverwinter.

Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with a company offering packaged goods, even if I think the “Valued at” numbers are just made up figures. If you like a game enough to want to throw down $200 for a ton of goodies after you’ve played for a bit, more power to you my friend! However, shelling out money (and a LOT of money at that) for goodies AND to TEST a product that may or may not be in a truly playable condition is just a cash grab, and Cryptic/PWE’s decisions here now make me question how much of the rest of the game will be a cash grab as well. What kind of quality testing does a game actually receive when the bulk of your testers paid money for access?

Cryptic keeps saying that information can and will be updated and changed as things are added to the packs so if you’re interested you may want to keep your eyes on their forums here for the most recent Founder’s Pack additions.

The Neverwinter forums are full of confusion and are a bit of a mess right now as these packs hit the market, but I’m sure I’ll have more to say on this topic on the Free to Play Cast we record on February 2nd.

What do YOU think? Am I just nuts? Leave a comment below, I’m gonna get off this ledge now and go get a drink.


EDIT: We got some feedback from Perfect World Entertainment stating that all the information available is actually just a work in progress and they will be updating the official forum posts with revised information. So attention, the information available is likely to change.

EDIT 2: Founder’s Packs are now available here.


  1. “3) A $15 monthly sub for a game for a year is only $180 if you paid monthly. Most games offer you an additional discount off of that price when paying for 1 year up front.”

    This is incorrect, if this were something like WOW was at launch, you pay $60 for the game(one month free play) and then $15 a month(for 11 months) would be $225. But if you take this $200 and if you play for a year, that would be $16.67 a month, if you play for 2 years, that means it cost you $8.34 a month, while WOW will cost you $180 every year played(if you pay the example $15 rate)

    Not to mention all of the bonuses you receive for each character you create. So in actuality, it’s a much better deal than any other MMOs in that price range.

  2. Perfect World Entertainment (PWE) is a horrible publisher. All the games they publish turn out to be pay 2 win. How do I know this? I’ve played their games before. They blatantly ignore complaints about players hacking and glitching; even if caught red handed with a screen shot.

    To every one who’s even thinking about paying for this game DO NOT PAY ANYTHING! Ignore this game, it’s a failed game already thanks to the publishing company.

    I know it’s Dungeons and Dragons but PWE is an evil company.

    Don’t believe me?

    Do some reasearch on their games like War of the Immortals and Battle of the Immortals you’ll see what I’m talking about.

    This company has also been taken to court for fraud and is being investigated.

    Do yourself a favor and stay away from this game and publishing company.

    MMOBOMB staff, please do not promote this horrible company.

    • …Not to mention the lack of updates on actual ingame content.

      Their cash shops get frequent updates but it costs you $15-$30 USD to even obtain the items. Hence, pay 2 win.

  3. i really hope this bites them in the butt for this i really think this will not be f2p but that is just me or there just money hungry and people that buy it is just retarded there the reason why they are doing this kind of stuff now for betas but o well i guess i will pass this game by 😉

  4. PWE is truly outrageous. Truly, truly, truly outrageous. Betas are meant to test for what is wrong and must be fixed/changed so that the game comes out in as polished a state as possible. Yet with this whole pricetag attached to even be part of the beta, this sends the WRONG message.

    For many of these people who are paying, it seems the general attitude is as follows;

    “I’m getting to play early! If you don’t like the founder’s packs you’re too poor to afford it”, etc.

    It’s sending the wrong message. Tons of people are treating it as early access instead of a beta. As a result I’m banking on the game being a bit unstable come release because many of these people are looking at what they get for their money instead of taking it as a testing period. This is why you don’t charge for beta access, PWE. It is not a finished product. Don’t treat it like one or people will treat it like one. Bad results.

    Personally I wouldn’t be caught dead paying for this founder’s stuff since I’m opposed to the idea of paying for an unfinished product. That aside, PWE seems to be pushing this idea of the cost being factored by its contents, including the game’s cash shop currency “Astral Diamonds”. Let me ask you if you REALLY need to sink over $100 into an F2P game. Just stop and think about this for a sec. If you really need all that currency, the game is far from being free to play.

    What’s even more shady about all this is there’s zero mention of the cost of items in the cash shop or even what the conversion rate of real world dollars to astral diamonds is. Outwardly this seriously looks like a big scam. It’s being handled poorly and I hope that many of these founder’s buyers find the game is not to their liking. Yes, I hope people get swindled out of their money.

    Why? Because it’ll sting them good and leave a lasting message that beta for an UNFINISHED product should not be charged for, let alone $60! I can buy a FINISHED game nowadays for that price, why in the heck would I pay upwards of $60 for something that apparently isn’t even done? Unless of course this “beta” is nothing more than a sneak peek, in which case PWE has yet more pie on their face for charging outrageous prices for early access.

    In short; bad business practices and just another day at PWE. Yes..I’m biased but if you’ve watched them over the years you’d know just as well.

  5. pwe has a lot of ballzs ask for something like this but they always been greedy and lazy examples rusty hearts has had a guild bug forever and raider z has had the same dam bugs since alpha gms u never see them in game all there events if u want to call them that are pushed towards cash shop not really any in game ones idk why cryptic lets say married pwe to give birth to this game pwe has a habit of screwing up there own games with stupid decisions like this founders pack crap way to gut the player base before u even open the doors to let people i like cryptic just wished they didnt pick pwe in the end i think they will regret it

  6. Just read some of the neverwinter forums, people are raging / feeling cheated about alot of stuff. A guy even quoted magicman’s take on the neverwinter founder’s pack.

    The sad thing is that mods/ devs are shamelessly ignoring all of that and not even showing the courtesy to reply to those. If you are against all this and are excited about this game, i request you NOT to give into these founder packs. I want this game to be good and i’m pretty sure alot of you action mmo fans want it to be good too. PWE is a shameless company and the best way to be heard is to not support this retardation (if it is a word). If you do give in you will only justify their actions and we will end up with a half finished product that will fail.

    We’ve waited almost a year, what’s a few more months gonna do? Let them feel the sting a bit too.

    Chunky out

  7. This takes the cake. These absurd prices are nothing like the ones on Path of Exile (and similar indie games) because the DEVELOPERS get the money. Perfect World Entertainment is not the developer, they are the hosting company. It amazes me PWE is still in business when they constantly make nothing but bad business decisions. The reason this game isn’t going to die nor be hindered by these useless betas (good luck getting test information from people who paid just to play before others) is only because it is free to play. If this game was pay to play it would fall flat on its ass within six months.

    Even if paying for betas was something every company did these prices are ridiculous. It’s like PWE doesn’t understand basic math i.e. 1,000 people paying $20 is less money than $3,000 paying $10. To make it worse we literally have next to zero information regarding this game (Path of Exile only did donation for beta at the public’s request and had already been in beta for months and months) so we have no idea if this game is worth ANY money. Way to f** up like usual, Perfect World Entertainment.

  8. I still am not sure what to think of PWE, but I believe in Cryptic — and besides all of that, I haven’t felt I wasted money on CO or STO, and I only technically subscribed to STO for a month… but my husband and I bought other stuff that is now permanent and I don’t have to worry about subscribing. I wish they had more flexibility for Freeform slots in CO (and they weren’t so darn expensive) but that’s my only real complaint.

    I already am guaranteed beta access (bought Torchlight 2, worth every penny of that $20 for just the game, the beta guarantee was just a little gravy, that’s all). I think the “founder’s packs” are silly too, but since it doesn’t look like there’s going to be a subscription option or lifer option (my husband is a CO lifetimer… bought at launch, when it was cheaper) this looks like a logical variant to them.

    A “free to play” game has to be free enough that plenty of people will pile in, while having some reason to actually plunk down money. They don’t HAVE to monetize every player — warm bodies means you have more people to group with, and even if you don’t pay any money, your friend might.

  9. I can’t quite wrap my head around the concept of paying nearly as much as a full priced console title..for accessing an unfinished product. Jesus christ, developers get their head ripped off for releasing a piece of trash at full price on a console–why would I pay as much to play what is guaranteed to be a buggy game? Clearly some people have too much money and too little of brains if they’re tossing down cash for this shlock. It’s like paying 60 bucks to a guy who coded a game in his room over the past 6 months. It’s far from finished but hey–You wanna play it so badly right?

    What the f**. It’s almost criminal.

  10. i was shocked wheni first heard about perfect world publishing Neverwinter online then i give up on it then 😀 when it goes live andi dont forget about i try it and check how far is pay to win 😀 Cryptic isa great game developer but….. PWE as publisher is fail lets hope someone will “buy or take it from” PWE 😀

    btw i got trinity and rhino in warframe 😀 the new update is awesome 😛

  11. The Hero of the North ($200) pack looks on par with the Lifetime Sub for STO and CO, however it lacks the important thing that’ll have me buy it, the monthly 500 Zen NW only stipend. And yes, it should include all the other Pack’s items too.

    These Founder Packs games have been putting out focus too much on buying beta access and not enough on long term play. :-/

  12. I think that they made have had a little blow back from this article and with MMOBOMB growing in fan base. (I would like to think)—-> impacts the swings of games in at least “unique hits” to there websites.( I hope)—->…. that they would take 15 minutes and read a few of these post and keep the buying beta aspect out of their game welcome in players willing to TEST the game and happy to give / share feedback and bugs to make their game as good as it could be on launch and then and only then should it be when the money grab begins and is totally justified by saying …. “we have a great game its F2P but not Free to look cool or Free to have lots of Classes ” if you like our game support it …. but that is the hopes of one man, BUT one man can and will make a change because 1 affects 2 and 2 affects 4 so on and so forth back to the point. SUPER excited about the news to unfold on this games rocky start.I will be watching on pins and needles

  13. Uhm, no thank you PWE & Cryptic, but i prefer to wait for the open beta sometime this year. I’m not dying to play Neverwinter but i would really like to try it. Paying for beta is uber nonsense i think.

  14. No Magicman your not Nuts… But PWE/Cryptic sure are. Cuz i cant believe this, this game looks good, but to have to pay that much is a real joke, What on earth are they thinking.. It is Beta testing.. its time to test the game not pay for it and all the bugs u get with it.. I want to play but not going to pay for it.. not that much anyways Very disappointed.. And if ur gonna pay 200 to get the extra goodies well i’m happy for u lol..

    • You don’t have to pay to play the game. Don’t confuse the “beta” which no matter what they call this it is not with paying to play the game. At most this is when they will do stress tests on the servers. You can play for free when it releases no one is entitled to be in a beta even if you really like the game, are it’s #1 fan, and want to play really really bad.

  15. FUK founders packs. VIndictus tried to push them to “get in early” on PWE. I played on gameforge EU version and got in 4 days early for free. That is one of many greedy examples of PWE corrupt system. Just look at their flag ship title, Perfect World. Most expensive “F2P” game that relies on rich addicts that have gambling syndrome.

  16. OK u guys, I have been playing D&D p&p & video games for like 28 years. Neverwinter looks like a fun game but the cookie cutter classes have got to go! DDO is awesome for dual classing & all other D&D games have some kind of multi classing system in it, hell D&D for super nes had dual classing, If you can’t multi class in neverwinter they will loose a lot of true D&D fans. MULTICLASSING! That is what D&D is all about. As for the founders packs MagicMan is totally right! No game should ask for money to TEST it. That is why it’s called a testing phase. To challange the stress of the servers & game play. I think MagicMan hit the nail on the head With this artical.

    • Agreed.. the charm of D&D is that you can mix and match classes in order to make something truly unique, from either a roleplaying standpoint or an efficiency one. That’s one of the many things that separates D&D from the rest.
      My friends who only played WoW and other MMOs can’t seem to understand the beauty of multiclassing because they’re too set in their ways and tell me that “healers can only heal and wear robes!”. Screw you, my healer wears fullplate and charges into battle with a warhammer.

      Take that away from people, and you have a standard MMO experience but with a better setting…

  17. Isn’t mmobomb a “f2p-only” site?

    Why there are all that USD $ crap? Who gives a s*it !?!
    This is going the same way of mmohut… shame on u

    • oh sorry only thousands of people give a s*it about it cause they were waiting for it to be ACTUALLY f2p and last time i checked(at least before PWE made this horrible decision for neverwinter)neverwinter is a f2p game and still is although i personally think its going p2w but it doesn’t matter.And let me understand something so u say people SHOULDNT be informed by mmobomb (or any other site in that matter)that PWE is makin their game from f2p to pretty much b2p?well good for u but i do not agree with that

    • Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Neverwinter is a free to play MMO. The Founder’s Packs are of course optional but this article is based entirely covering details for a free to play mmo, it’s beta dates being announced, and the bad idea of their particular founder’s packs.. Are you implying that even if a title is f2p we should then only cover aspects of the game that are free? Please elaborate a little, I’m curious what your feedback here is trying to point out. Also, how is an article saying the selling of packs is a bad idea the same as adding mass advertising. If anything, this article is likely to upset a company not promote them. Just look at all the other comments here.
      Thanks so much! 🙂

    • @Mister Obvious

      “Who gives a s*it ?” Obviously anyone who wants enough information about the game before making a decision whether or not to try it or even recommend it to their friends.
      If MMOBOMB made biased analysis where they ignored certain aspects of the game for whatever reason, then I’m sure that not many people would take their opinion into consideration…which would render the point of having this website moot.

      I don’t know about you, but I like reading their pre/reviews and see if they match to my own experiences. And for the most part, they do. Which, incidentally, is why I keep coming here. So I’m very glad they brought up the Founders’ Pack issue to light since I’ll have to think twice about trying out a game that gives certain ingame advantages for people who buy into a beta test.

  18. If you reading this please think carefully before payin about neverwinter.I am aware that pwe is a REALLY greedy company for like 3-4 years pretty much.

    Example 1
    3 or 4 years back i was playin a chinese game which pwe published called Heroes of the 3 Kingdoms.It was fun at start but at end game it was pretty much p2w.People gave A LOT of money in that game and played although gms rarely went inside that game or there was almost never a small/big update for that game by pwe.Results:1 year later game close.PWE gave ONLY 15%(or 25% not sure)of the money people spend in the game BACK to them and kept everything for themselfs pretty much cause as i said no updates at all whatsoever

    Example 2
    My 2nd example would be raiderz.Good game,good combat not pay to win hopefully but no updates at it as well at all.Max lvl is still 35 although the game is being live for some time now(by some time i mean some months)and as said from 1 of the comments above there were NO changes to the bugs since game was open beta(yep u read corectly they changed NOTHING when game went live exept make some events cause game was going live.Events that lasted like 1 week or so like if u grind u would get sometimes soem special drops which were pots technecly healing u.Oh and game was technecly quest grinding till lvl 30 and lvl 30-35 was dungeon grind)that would be my my 2nd example of how “good” pwe is.

    AND EVEN THOUGH i knew both of these things i still had hope on pwe and neverwinter ofc.BUT after this i am giving out all hopes on this game i believe this will be p2w(hopefully not but i lost all hopes anyways on pwe)and sorry inflictious and no offense to u but YES after this just like snail games i hate pwe as a company.I WILL try this game when it goes open beta(probably like june-july or maybe even later)but i got no hopes of it whatsoever i am sorry for all those who were dissapointed like me for neverwinter and i apologize also if i said “too much” but i really wanted you guys(for whoever follows pwe like i did till now)to know what kind of company PWE really is and for those who knew kudos for u my friends.

    Thats all i had to say and its MY personal opinion.Thanks for reading and have a nice day

    • PWE may suck as a whole but they did not develop the game, CRYPTIC did. Star Trek online is an awesome game. I haven’t gotten to end game content yet to see if it is P2W but as far as bugs, not to shabby. I think CRYPTIC is doing there job well keeping bugs outta STO. I also play Forsaken world sometimes & that game is pretty cool as well, but again I haven’t gotten to end game content to see if it is also P2W. I am hoping Neverwinter is not P2W.

      • Actually… STO follows a P2W model. They give you a choice though, you can grind until you can buy 1 of 100 pieces needed before you die of old age in real life. Then that leaves your children to go in and grind the 2/100 item for you. By your 100th generation of family line, you should have a new and up to date ship like the guys that slapped down cash…

  19. Paying for beta access… Whoever thought up the Founders pack addition is a freaking evil genius! Paying to play a unfinished game! WHY DIDN’T I THINK OF THIS??? Aren’t betas supposed to be there to test the game and make sure it actually works? Next thing you gonna tell me developers are gonna require you to pay 5 or 10$ to unlock data that is already on a disc.. Wait.. You tell me they already do this.. hmm….

  20. $200 for a founders pack!?

    The items/privileges are nowhere near worth that. You would expect lifetime status, including a monthly point stipend ala LoTRO for that price.

    Honestly, this makes me concerned about Neverwinter. If this is the first where hearing of their monetary ethics, I believe they are in for a rocky ride (including the player base nevertheless).



  21. OHHHH !!!!! i thought it will be a good game but with all that grab money from whatever reason they want …….

    Somethink start stinking before is release ????? is my imagination???? Dont know the only think i know is the good felling i had before of the game , it was the most anxius game of the year cause there were showing us a lot videos a lot things that now i dont care…. i mean i dont wanna play it, cause i know now what Cryptic and perfect word are made of … they only will want the money ….so imagine how much money they will ask once ingame???? . I was expecting other thing to be honest.

    I was expecting more player care from they but lets see how finally is.

    I m starting to piss of the FTP titles is all the same now once you are ingame you HAVE to expend more money a year to fell good playing a game than before .

    • Ahh.. i forgot , if open beta date is unknown went is gonna be the final product release???? In august??? Is gross dont you think ?

  22. Only a moron would pay to get into a beta.
    I just got in for free, it took me 10 seconds of googling and about 5 minutes of work.

    PC gamer is giving away keys like candy.

    The incentives are in no way worth the price. They should offer the 60 for 20 and the 200 for 50. That’d make a hell of a lot more money.
    It makes no business sense AT ALL to gamble your new games reputation, and a bit of cash cowing possibility, by setting extreme prices and get a few sales, whereas you could set the bar lower and get a ton.
    Hell i’d pay $20 for beta access and some goodies and i’m not afraid to admit it.

    • it is not BAD to pay to enter a cb(although if u ask me i find it unacceptable)but there is a HUGE difference between 20 dollars and 200 dollars 😛

  23. thanks MMOBOMB staff for the updates let the people be heard !!!!!!!!! thanks if anyone droped this link over there or if perfect world / cryptic Is reading this.!! I still love you pwe / cryptic i promise we can hug it out ingame later mwah!


    $200 for an UNFINISHED product????? you have got to be f**king kidding me. Go back to league people only true f2p model 🙂

  25. this crazy 60 -200 bucks just to play CBT well good luck to pwe what happend to letting people in to test and find bugs now ur just gonna get a bunch people doppin money to say hey i played before u well pwe just killed any hopes i had for this game i can only imagine the dam cash shop if the price of getin in to CBT is any indication how things are iam deff gonna pass on this game i can see it now 20-40 bucks a pop just get a new race needless to say my feelings have changed towards this game and company as a whole

  26. I agree with ya inflictious in a lot of aspects as now alphas seem to be old skool closed betas where you have to seek to get into the game not by the size of your wallet, and agree 100% +50 dkp with the flooding of free to play games publishers are taking notice to “some publishers” wild cash grab or p2w styles and are flooding the market with crap and leaving a lot of mmo players burned an feeling like the should not even try new games for fear that you will invest time in a sub par trash game not all that glitters is gold thats for sure and you can paint lips on a pig and its still a pig. I hope for our sake that some of these publishers *cough cough* will take warning that they are leaving a wake of un trusting gamers in their wake DEVs on the other hand have it the worst because i have to agree they take a lot of time and effort and really create that is good and maybe what we want for a publisher to say nope you got to re work this because this wont make us any money and this year will be one of the biggest for F2P i just hope we dont see a darker side of this industry exposed and put into the lime light, who knows maybe PWE will see this (or we could post it on their forums) *coughs to the founders that have access to them* drop the old link bomb after all they are the ones that should know about how the players that have waited long time and are the reason they are one of the “most anticipated” games of 2013 after all without players there is no game great points tho but all seem to carry the same undertone of burned hurt gamers that are tried of being the loot pinayata while PWE holds the stick

    • Ya , and Alpha’s are the hardest thing to find now a day’s.. No offence to MMOBomb or site’s simular , But you will Never see anything advertised about Alpha testing game’s .. Due to NDA..

      I spend Hour’s at a time searching for that information… Endless forum’s.. Endless site’s.. And just like the Old Skool beta’s ( Nice , 😀 i love that term ) I find a few a year , Get into a few and do My job like they ask of me..

      The Old Skool Beta Phase that i truely enjoyed.



  27. this is the future of the f2p market, now we have to pay for a product we dont even know if we going to like it and ontop of that they want so much money for something that isnt even finish.

    fk you PWE go to fking hell you motherfker.
    i will never pay for a CB of any game be it p2p or f2p, wat the fk is this bullshit.

    • It’s probably more finished than you know.. Beta test that are only 3 day’s long … It’s close or already finished !


    • Just think more of this as a payed Stress test.. 3 day’s ..week of tweaking , Stress test again . .. Tweaking … Nothing more.

      Sorry for the double post , thought about it a second.

      • Every game is unique with how the open stress tests period, as you call them. Some even shut down not long after.
        HOWEVER, PWE…oh man…lets look at the title they should keep always in good shape. Perfect World, the game they take their business name from. OR vice versa. Any ways, this game has CB bugs still in it…. that is PWE management for you. And that game is OLD.

        Now, lets look at the last game they published, RaiderZ. They pushed the same marketing: Pay for founders, get in early and get benefits. The other publisher, ex frogster, in EU (I accidently wrote gameforge below in another post) had launched several beta tests months before release for free, and then promised the same OB weekend for free to all its customers, and surprise, they opened not 2 day weekend, but 4 days earlier and all in for free. No founders or pay to play like PWE. and it is the same content. The biggest shame is that you will need at least 10 bucks minimum in RaiderZ end game or more if you want to change skills.
        So PWE double profits from founder gimmics, and then in game pay to win mechanics. So, I Dont know, out of moral, or logic, or both, I prefer to not touch PWE. It is interesting MMOBOMB was on the brink of using critical analysis skills and brought up how black light was P2W, something the veterans admit in the official forums.

  28. @ Inflictious

    I am not mad at PWE (although this is typical) OR cryptic although some of there products are less than what they claim. I am upset with the fact that CBT is not CBT anymore, I use to think that Devs Like Cryptic or any other for that matter took great deal of time and effort in SELECTING players for closed beta testing. It used to be saying something when you got into a beta now 60 bucks will do I guess that is the american dream though and suckers are born every minute just have to find a way to pick them up flip them over and shake the change out of their pockets.

    • I understnd you there.. I brought up once that F2P was at it’s peak when i did a show with Magicman …around halloween last year. My biggest concern was how many game’s are getting flooded into the f2P market.

      From a Dev’s point game’s are not made for free. Still take a crew a good year or 2 of wage’s to get your game to the Stage that it can release.

      I worried about this for the reason that, With so many title’s 75 last year ( I played/tested them all ) that averaged out to a game roughly every 4 day’s… Yeah some just sucked so bad i never went back after an hour..But ..with so many titles…Not 1 company that launched a F2P game got a 1$ from me.. And they probably never will.. This year scheduled for release is near the 100 mark.. Giving me roughly 3 days a game..

      At this rate.. Yeah Alot i will never even play after full release.. And company’s know this..

      Your right 100% there not beta’s any more .. There B2P Just change the word Buy to Foundry ..Hmmm

      Make’s it sound New… Mystrious .. Enticing .. But hey . I told Magicman I was done with Beta’s , I now go for Alpha Testing , A new word that came along just a year or so ago.. Those charge Nothing , But is where all the test’s and feed back’s are really done..

      Notice that in all these CBT’s , OBT’s the item malls are now active and selling stuff… Wierd huh !

      They never were before until a game fully released.. I will never buy a foundry pack or pay to join a cbt… But the one’s that do … Hey good on them.. Without them , Game’s into days market probably won’t even last 6 month’s before shutting down.

      With out foundry’s …Game’s will not make anything to stay alive. Not really a cash cow when you think about it.

      Thank’s for your Feed Back !


  29. Well only time will tell with this one . I think there will be much to learn from this sad little experiment we are going to call never winter closed beta “testing” I would love to be apart of the team that notices that the players in closed beta rarely submits bugs or responds to lengthy surveys , not to say that all will not but I believe that the players that really wanted to test this game would of done just that NOT just try the game but TEST it as well and over up feed back and bring bugs to the dev. team that would be either the make it or break it keeping the “most anticipated title” steam rolling through open beta long story short. I want to be the guy that takes the closed beta bugs / survey and open beta bugs / surveys and see where they get the bulk of the information that in my opinion IS WHAT BETA IS ABOUT period. yes enjoy it love it get excited but do what you signed up to do.

  30. This is not about PWE in general , But i see and read so much hate here in the time i spent reading all of your post’s/comment’s…

    Are you all just mad at PWE or The foundry pack’s?

    The Main reason i ask this is When the foundry Pack for Beta to FireFall was set .. Thier was No where near as much hate full comment’s and that game is still in CBT for over a year now.. You could have bought a Founder pack for 50 – 125 $ , but no one seemed to care about that at all… For one of the better game’s to come along last year. ( Probablty better than this .. FireFall stated Not P2W —– Neverwinter (90% chance P2W).

    Don’t get me wrong i am bias on this. Just wondering about all the hate!


    • Bro firefall and this game have different genres. You should understand the hate because there IS no action mmo out there that has a good story line and a fun combat system. Its always either/or. This game showed promise but don’t see that happening anymore.

      Honestly the subscription model would have worked better, At least that way you have some assurance that the game won’t fail immediately and developers will keep updating content to keep things interesting.

      PWE have made the bold statement. “Pay if you want in.” Obviously the people who just want to play the game would shell out money to gain access. This kinda ruins the whole purpose of the beta because the game will not reach its true potential and be filled with bugs, crashes etc.

      As for the firefall founders pack, they introduced it way after the game went into CBT. Its minimal as compared to this. Beta testers can send people invites and imo it was a move to get more people into the game to check if the game is ready for deployment.

      • I was only using it as a refrence, No point explaining to me what it did or did not do , your just looking to far into a name.It is not the first to do it and and Never Winter won’t be the last… Was just one that came to mind atm… Nothing more..


      • After looking , FireFall’s Website still sells them.. If you click on Foundry pack , it say’s Access to beta… yes if you have a friend who has a key sure your getting in , But it still is a closed beta with a Foundry pack to get into the game.
        Prices since it started though have dropped , Now it’s 20- 100$

        I had been in the beta since last january..Thank god cause it might have been the 1 game i would have bought a pack.

  31. Yeah. I too remember when it was the other way around, when YOU’RE the one being PAID to do BETA because it’s WORK not PLAY (okay maybe a little bit of play XD).

    Again, you’re TESTING a product.

    It’s like you’re going to a mall and then a perfume salesperson approaches you and says they have the best perfume. Interested, you stop and ask for a sample.
    You’re then asked to choose between smelling the
    perfume test paper thing or one spray directly from the bottle.
    You’re in the process of taking whichever you chose
    when suddenly the salesperson tells you, that TO TEST IT,
    it’s 59.99 for the paper and 199.99 for the bottle.
    Then she offers you a brochure
    You thought you’re gonna get something out of it for free
    but it turns out its 19.99 for the brochure.

    I also agree with your last f2p cast comment where the setup is better if the game is in beta (and is free) and then offers founder’s packs to players like Warframe.

    • the perfume story continues…

      You walk away from the perfume salesperson thinking
      you misses out on smelling something really awesome.

      Then another guy approaches and tries out the perfume.
      He then paid (really wtf) 59.99 for the perfume test paper.

      After smelling the guy said that the perfume doesn’t smell that good.
      And he commented that he has his own perfume,
      which he got for FREE and it smelled a lot better.
      The salesperson then said that the perfume was not released yet
      Changes to it will be made from the comments from TESTERS.

      The guy punched the salesperson in the face.
      THE END.

  32. Figures! all MMO beta are f**king doing the good old “You give me your f**king money and you can play a game that is gona be full of D/C and bugs and well bad gameplay till launch” Thanks you 😛

  33. “-Exclusive access to ‘Menzoberranzan Renegade’, a Drow playable race like the legendary ranger Drizzt Do’Urden, complete with unique racial abilities and tattoo
    -Unique ‘Armored Spider’ mount
    -Unique ‘Panther Companion’”

    Great, as if there weren’t enough Drizzt wannabes out there already… now you get to pay to be a special kind of wannabe.

    It really shows what kind of company we’re dealing with when the folks with the deepest pockets (and willingness to use their money on a product they know next to nothing about) are the ones chosen to try it out. Not even going to pretend the playing field’s not going to be even between payers and free players, huh?

    I remember when CBT’s were about players willing to help the developers find bugs and give suggestions to improve things before release and then get a token item (a cosmetic or a title) as a reward for their service… Nowadays we gotta pay to betatest. And those who pay the most get actual advantages that others won’t be able to get. Ever.

    Hilarious. Pay2win from the beginning.

  34. if this so called “closed beta evolution” continues, then my guess – after year or two you will need to pay even for open beta… in last years CBT has changed so drastically that it needs to be renamed, this is just absurd, my thoughts about neverwinter has changed (tnx to PWE), and even if i will get e-mailed betakey, or key giveawey – i just wont bother… not to mention aeriagames CBTas – access to every1 – cant see differences between OBT (silly aeriagames)

    Tnx magicman for article

    • Yes , Very good point.. just the last year have we seen the switch to paying for CBT, but your onto something here !

      Open Beta’s run alot longer than most CBT’s , Sometime’s a full year before release… I could see a 5$ – 10$ charge coming before full release of a game !

      Thank’s for the thought !


      • well if you rename it from CBT to founders test (for example) or smth, dont care how, there wouldn’t be such dramas about buyin access in CBT in first place… just changing meaning of CBT cuz of cash grab – drives players mad…

  35. im sure by the time my pc gamer beta key works I would have forgotten about the game and moved on to something else that’s sad smh…

  36. “-Exclusive access to ‘Menzoberranzan Renegade’, a Drow playable race like the legendary ranger Drizzt Do’Urden, complete with unique racial abilities and tattoo”

    Pay to win. YEP! Perfect World knows how to screw things over…GG….GG.

  37. well magicman, this is pwi we are talking about, if it’s a not a cash grab it’s not pwi. They don’t even manage most of their games. i should know, spending 200 or so bucks on ether saga a few years ago. i didnt realizs how broken and dead that game was then. Having your game funded by pwi just means it is going to dissapoint players in the long run. i’d rather wait for neverwinter to reach open beta.. and even then the end game will probably force you to pay up if you want the best gear to do the job. it’d be nice if some other publisher was funding neverwinter.

    • I liked Ether Saga also… But, I really don;t feel like i wasted my money on it.. The thing is well, Ya world seem’s rather dead now , But you can still log onto that character.. I’d rather have it that way then have shut down for good… Love my character there . 🙂


  38. If the game is Buy to Play, Like GW2, then for me it’s ok to pre-purchase the game and get access to beta weekends and early access to game. But if game is Free to Play, then for me personally it’s disgusting to charge anything to get into Beta. And one more thing that is becoming more and more annoying and idiotic is – Open Beta. Today Open Beta = Live, but it’s used as lame excuse for “game is still in development”, but they just want to say this: “We want your money, but we didn’t finished all the content that we wanted, so we will give you this “Open Beta”, but we by no mean are going to fix problems from that “Open Beta” before we go “Live.”

    • I wanted to say, that, they release game as Open Beta, then just work on additional content, so they can go “live”, and they don’t really bother with fixing things. And by doing that, players can’t complain that there isn’t much things to do in game, and Publisher get to release game early and get money by offering Cash Shop in Open Beta.

  39. I’ll just have to wait, after the fiasco of GW2, I’m not gonna waste any money on something that may / may not do anything special which I can find as ftp elsewhere (i.e you’re gonna be paying for something you can’t trial or check out in depth video reviews first).

    I’ll keep my eye on beta key promo’s otherwise open beta or live for me.

  40. I’m actually okay with founders packs. The 200 dollar one is a bit over the top though and I have a feeling we are going to have plenty of Drizzt impersonators regardless. I have no problem giving money to a developer for a promising game. Although the beta access aspect of it is questionable, but it is quickly becoming the new norm.

    I mean this have progressed naturally from years past when you got beta access for preordering a game. They are just looking to get some early cashflow injections for the F2P equivalents. Although I can’t quite shake the feeling that I am playing them to test their game, but if you want it badly enough you’ll pay and thats what they are banking on.

  41. you could sub to elder scrolls for a year or play potential 2 weekends of “early ” beta time ….. I think not that is just freaking crazy. I understand this to be a “highly anticipated” title but nope think i will pass. I have said this lots already we have made a “group ” if you will of players that will not get into the beta we sit at campfires with cookies soaked in tears and think about the games we will never get early beta time because now . its not what you HAVE tested OR QUALITY of beta testers but get in the game before others and i think its a horrible thing that only offers a school yard type status , We will see how the beta unfolds but Just because they buy founders packs means they will submit bugs and offer up any input other than i got into the game before you nanni nanni boo boo thanks for the info tho magic man and MMOBOMB staff , as always well thought out easy to take in. hard to swallow tho

  42. bogus , should be able to try out the game to see where its going before having to shell out the doe. I have seen plenty of games that promise good game play and show you in videos what they want you to see to flop hard.

  43. If you are nuts? Sure you are, there was never doubt about that (just watch the F2PC hehehehe). But are they doing a money grab? A resounding yes, they are. Unfortunately it seems to have turned into market standard to pull this kind of thing.
    For instance, Warframe. Loving it, having a blast (I ignore the bugs and glitches, it’s beta afterall and most I can do is report them), but I’m seriously hanging in the balance about picking any founder’s pack. I want to help the game I’m enjoying, but it’s really hard making gambles at this packages for things in such early stages.
    Most things are still subject to changing and balancing, so how do you make an informed decision about spending your money if you don’t know how the end product will come out? Always hard to put cash into beta (regardless of what beta stage) games because of that. Yet it seems that beta turned into a pre-sale kind of arrangement if not a “fund my game please” stage of production.

    • Agreed. There’s so little info on the game. Don’t get me wrong i’d want to support the game (i want it to be good because this looked like the first action mmo that would’nt be crap :p) but the means is just wrong. Take the elder scrolls beta sign up for instance, they ask you to write a freaking novel before you can click submit. This shows that they want people in the beta that will actually make their game better and more playable for the masses. What PWE have done, negates the whole concept of CBT. Why not just make it an open beta beta instead because clearly people just who want to pay will shell out this much money.

      Oh and a huge fan of warframe. Still stuck with my ash sheild and chasis qq

  44. such a turnoff. Honestly Im not even thrilled about this game. My friend and I used to Play D&D and make are own characters and roleplay when we were reallly little so Im a fan but its PWE which I dont like any of there games and honestly I dont think it looks like anything special. We’ll see, I hope it is but really Im interested in the game changing Elder Scrolls online : )

      • dude, most free to play games are pay to play too if you wanna actually have fun and play all the content. Plus there nowhere near the amount of good production value, content and updates.

    • If you’re looking for a good co-op RPG and don’t mind going isometric, you might want to look into Baldur’s Gate 1 / 2, Icewind Dale 1 / 2, Neverwinter Nights (DONT GET 2 IT SUCKS), or the Path of Exile open beta. The Bioware games can be found on GoG, cheap and ready to run on modern systems. Path of Exile is showing great promise because of it’s ethical F2P model.

  45. Ugh seriously… you have to be a pretty big fan of the game to pay for beta, and it’s pricey as hell.
    I understand that people want to support the game, there’s nothing wrong with that. But in this stage when it’s not even released yet I think they could’ve settled for just a paypal donation button on their site or something like that.

  46. I agree with the founder pack being stupid.Especially in this one they ask alot for just the beta and in my experiance ppl who pay for thoses acess useally don’t care about helping the team i.e bugs,glitch,exploites,feedback.So to me no you’re not crazy but, you’re right about how free to play games are starting to be not that free to play after all!!

  47. Cryptic studios and PWE lost a whole lot of respect from me, founders packs? Buying into CBT? seriously the $60 and $200 is a bit absurd for a product that’s not even finished yet. If this is what they are portaying with the Closed Beta then i’m pretty sure the game is gonna head towards the “pay2win” model down the road.

    A HUGE let down and to be honest the anticipation and wait just got a whole lot bearable now 😛

      • LordHikaru what in gods name does that have to do with ANYTHING.
        Have you seen the PoE cash shop? It’s purely cosmetic and basic utility (char slots/bank space). No F2P MMO can boast this. They don’t even sell exp gain items.
        $1000 and you get your very own, custom designed item put into the game, and you support it immensely. That’s pretty sweet, and it’s not like they’re giving you a +1000 Uber god r*** stick of immense awesome +50000 all stats, you just help design it. They balance it.

  48. Finally got a key and now I have to wait for at least two months to test it.
    And I also think that is huge time diference between founders and rest of us who got keys other way.
    Well that’s PWE


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