Is Allods Online a pay to win game? Does a free player stand a chance? Watch to learn it all!

Play or Pay to Win is a new show of MMOBomb.com about the Cash Shop of popular free to play online games including some concerns of the Free-to-Play model for MMOs and the pay-to-win stigma.

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  1. satanyca on December 16, 2014

    the answer is simple….any f2p game is p2w…unfortunately..but companies need money to make the game live more so..well…it makes sense

  2. Tony Tran on October 5, 2013

    Active lv55 Summoner 3 years.
    1. you can play allods without spending any money but you will struggle.
    2. No one is forcing anyone to spend real money its just that there are a few op players with myth earring slot and lv12 runes + that will rape you ingame.
    3. No point playing Allods if your not gonna spend cuz you won’t be wanted in guilds/Astral.
    4.There are a few item shop stuff you can get via grinding allot. But for me i just exchange gpots for gem shards then trade it in at currency guy for gold its quick and easy unless you wanna grind your dick off.
    5.Runes is the main problem that is coursing players to become op or quit Allods.
    6.New mount well you don’t have to get it but your missing out allot, like i said if you can’t afford it to dam bad no point playing Allods then.
    7.Extra talent points/Rubies Real money otherwise grind you dick off.
    8.Once you spend you cant stop trust me 3 years of spending and i’m still going.
    9.For New players i recommend playing on the Subscription server Cuz no one is OP everything is Balance and there is No item shop, It’s easier to Lv up and grind.

  3. No longer allods player on August 6, 2013

    The fact that you have to pay for a mount was reason enough for me to quit the game. No im not going to walk around trying to grind to 55 when there should be a quest or atleast be able to buy a mount with ingame gold. No you have to pay for a mount outright with real money or pay for a compass with real money for a CHANCE at a mount. Terrible.

  4. some random allods player on July 29, 2013

    they added a feature where you can buy cash shop money for in-game money…… so yeah bb pay to win

  5. MentalBreak on June 18, 2013

    Pay to win?Only if you really suck at this game.Seriously Get alchemy and start crafting until you can craft the high end potions.Sell those off and make a fortune to buy whatever cash shop items you want.It’s working for me.Hell even selling off the items you obtain from herbalism is profitable.Most players now don’t spend that amount of money at all they just go with it.Also if you want to PVP then yeah you need high level runes.But is that really the games fault?They have enough PvE content to keep you content and playing with level 6 runes to enjoy end game.That’s easily obtainable if you master your craft.Too lazy to do that?Then sounds like you better use your credit card noobs! πŸ™‚

    PS.You can get through the entire game up to level 55 with just level 1 runes.People are doing that now.You just need to get rep gear for your level and you’ll be good.Less [censored] and moaning more grinding and hoarding!

  6. Greg on June 3, 2013

    I have a level 55 account in Allods.
    Its not p2w imo.
    I hit 10k-11k in pvp and i havnt bought one thing.
    The problem i see with the game is balance.

  7. tony tran on February 18, 2013

    Anyway since iv been playing for almost 3 years now and all that hard work i cant quit now and im kinda addicted to the game must play everyday or ill lose progress.
    PAY to WIN ALL THE WAY FK YEAH.

  8. tony tran on February 18, 2013

    fken pay to win all the way.
    Allods was rated top F2P they came 4th or something. And yes you don’t have to spend money if you don’t wanted too but player who spend allot on high LV runes will fke up any class thats why its P2W thats why the classes are not balance there op.
    like me iv already spent $700 on the game and heres a good tip play something else like AION, RIFT, TERA , Blade & Soul or Lineage 2 i mostly recommend Guild wars 2 currently the top game.
    Other F2P are Aika online and Forsaken world so on……

  9. Memphis on December 6, 2012

    You’re surprised a WoW Knockoff (to a near illegal extent) is a ripoff? LOL

  10. Who cares on October 2, 2012

    I just wanna say thx to the guys for posting. I was gonna play Allods online then i read into the “pay2play” thing and saw alot of comments on various diffrent sites. Looks like the people that say it’s not pay2win are people who already spend money and don’t like it that Allods isn’t that populair anymore. 2 servers and after less then 2 year already merging into 1 server.. ? I cancelled my download. Have a good day.

    (ps: just so u know they could make ALOT more money when it was actually free2play, cous it would be mad populair)

  11. hi all on October 1, 2012

    Hi,

    i play allods eu 8 month alredy…game is not P2W but its more like if you dont pay you actually cant be in top rank players coz making lvl 13 rune in game is more like imposible if you don’t pay.
    It is true you can get top geer with no spending money but that requires 24/7/365 playing. Most events they give are some items drops then later you need compass to opent maps…and you need at least 50 to get mount. Maby some will say “you dont need top ranking mount” ….well your wrong…to be good in battleground you need mount rank 3/4. From my opint of view you can be good player if you spend aprox 500$ and use it just for runes to get them to lvl 10/10. Sadly my paycheck on job is 300$ so i can only dream of that runes…but i still play and farm KoE every day to get 500g in few h.there is still Battleground to get leggendary items that i farm few month alredy and get draconic relics. still with al those items i got leggy and draconics, some can 1-hit me πŸ˜€

  12. tony tran on September 17, 2012

    also in upgrade section in item shop has an item i always buy concentrated catalyst use to get 15 amalgam + 400% refine gear boost. cost 200gpots. up grade 5 gear thats 1k gpots gone so i spend another $10 hehe

  13. tony tran on September 17, 2012

    im not a lazy person i go to school and i work.
    if i’m told to do something i get up and do.
    or get told off yell at/ banned from playing.
    but whne it comes to working in the kitchen as chef man im fcken lazy the crap pay and long hours 9.30am til 11.30pm fk that.
    cant stay at home and play all day not like those losers out there

  14. tony tran on September 17, 2012

    Huutony summoner lv 51 yul server.

    Allods definitely pay to win iv spent almost $1000 on crystal chip to make runes, on mounts , currency for gold , and sales/ event.
    kinda addicted to this game i spend money a few times a week.

  15. vioshark on August 28, 2012

    allods is not pay to win it is pay to be lazy

  16. spyke on August 20, 2012

    level 13 runes were averaged at around 17k U.S.D to make a full set by a response video on youtube by a pair of veteran allods players

    No one, I repeat NO ONE appreciates the obvious “you’re gonna wanna buy” comments that permeate your review or blatant overlooking of the fact that as a Gpotato/gala.net game it has 2 common factors which have carried on from flyff and many others that quite frankly annoy the crap outta me to see you overlook

    1: upgrading, costs, money. If someone has to buy those chips to make runes, they have to pay to win, NO ONE in their right mind will grind THAT much gold to buy them as they’re usually insanely priced, and still someone has to buy them for the “winning” to begin just because YOU don’t personally buy them with real currency doesn’t mean it hasn’t occured

    2: their system of experience gain and loss usually is horribly mired down with heavy, HEAVY and I repeat HEAVY losses for death outside of garbage “ress scrolls” or “exp protection scrolls” which translates to “pay us to avoid a sh*tty design aspect of our game or suffer horribly to losses and frustration” and fail to offset that with a strong experience gain system, you’re fighting the hardest of the hard in most gala games, barely scraping through if you don’t UPGRADE *cough* and if you die due to cheese enemies or horribly imbalanced classes, bugged skills or enemies or latency spikes that are outside of your control etc etc well that’s your own fault for not paying isn’t it?

    Yeah, reclassify it as pay4fun even if you wish, but if you can’t stay alive unless you are forcibly upgrading through a broken player market which is tied into a cash shop inherently then YES you are paying to win, although oddly enough it even seems more like paying to not die horribly at each chance and get stuck at a level plateau and never progressing, to some reaching the last level would be considered “winning” and from my experience with this developers games, that is one thing you won’t get to do without nigh insane levels of grind that would cost you more in medical bills from damaging yourself and being committed by your loved ones to an institution than anything

    my experience was from flyff, which has just released it’s mass reskin (ahahahaha x infinity) as flyff gold, more akin to a legal maneuver company name change than a real “update” and from the first glance they’ve still not correct the bugs that had plagued the game when I got sick of it and left, and yes, I paid to avoid the frustration of things and tried out their gambling erm… “upgrade” system, which btw folkarino’s is just as sickening as the chips and runes of allods
    the knight class which could with cheap items tank masses of enemies and allow for some bypassing of the garbage enemy cheese damage output with a little support was left bugged for some time missing it’s passive damage x2 proc and it’s no wonder why either, ridiculously overpowered billposter hybrid classes could stunlock the mini bosses and farm the heck outta them and were considered the alpha class of the game IF you of course spent a ridiculous amount of money on them, and again said class could with a specific build guarantee one shot people in pvp due to the abuse of certain items which again would be gained through scrolls of awakening (cash shop item kerchiiiing!!) and could offer negative stats entirely ruining a drop (which was probably garbage anyways)

    if you see Gpotato on a game, or gala.net AVOID their tired BS tactics, their let down failure games that are just localised cutesy gambling scams dressed up as BAD MMO’s
    and don’t let this company make another dime

    for the sake of 60 Euro you can within the next week or so own guild wars 2, which won’t gouge you for far more money via P2Win scams like these guys will and enjoy a much more polished and relevant game

  17. Krusader on June 16, 2012

    Just to be clear, the author of this video wasn’t far enough into the game to make an educated decision. Allods is pay to win, the Rune System is the method, and the author rather skips over it.

    In a one on one fight between a free player and a pay to win player, the fight will be no contest; the free player will be dead in 1,2 or 3 shots. If you don’t care about pvp that’s fine, but raiding guilds will expect your runes to be at certain levels to progress in content. Your damage wont be competitive otherwise.

    It’s true that many of the players have mentioned that you can buy these things on the AH with in game gold. And you can, the prices are just out of reach to free to play players.

  18. Mitkosa333 on June 3, 2012

    I see everyone in the comments say allods if Pay2W exept magikman.In my opinion a Pay2W game is a game with no cash shop or atleast no stat buffs like the elixirs in allods.The only Play2W game at the moment that i know is League of Legends and no other.They still have a cashshop but they dont sell thinks that are changing the player performance.U cant buy even runes that give u stats with their money currency.At the moment im in the Path of Exile beta but as it seems it will become Pay2W as soon as it enters and i dont know any MMORPG that isnt Pay2W.If u could tell me atleast one i will be happy but at the moment i think all mmorpgs are Pay 2 win.League of Legends is not mmorpg its a moba game.

  19. Ovidicus on June 1, 2012

    Goodjob Magicman i really liked the video. Your opinion was stated in a well-formed and correct manner. Like Magic said “the video was based off of opinion” and even that if not to many people got offended he then announced a disclaimer of being fairly judge by regular players and pay to win advantages so lighten up. I for one have paid for games i mean i don’t play to many RPG’s but, i definitely play shooters and have shelled out a few to get some permanent weapons. Doesn’t make you a bad person it’s just the odds of finding a person without cash items have been trimmed if i must say. If you really enjoy a game that much and spend some real money then go for it, there is nothing wrong with it cause either way all it does is buy time because a rough percentage of the items you do buy in-game can be earned in the game or bought in most RPG’ s from an auction house. NO HARM NO FOUL. Enjoy the game that’s all i can say. I mean what is more harmful pay to win players or hackers. I think i would rather take my chances with pay to win because who knows you could always still come out ontop and if you ever felt the feeling of winning something against a person who has shelled out a fortune to “receive items” or in other people’s brains “buy skill” and beat them without anything that you didn’t earn yourself it feels great πŸ™‚ but, my opinion stands clear i believe the game is pay to win but, it is up to you to see if you have what it takes to live up to your expectations while playing the game money or no money.

    Thankyou,

    Ovidicus

  20. A former allods player on May 31, 2012

    Just wanting to say, that you are very wrong.

    Allods is in fact a Pay-to-win game. Truly, this is one of the more superior free games out there, but it is pay-to-win.

    Whether it be PVE or PVP, runes matter all the time. Roaming the various astrals with only level one runes is a sure fire way to get you killed by a player from the opposing faction. Runes affect weapons, armor, and skills. You are going to have a freeking hard time if you reach the PVP maps with only lvl 1 runes.

    So what do I do? I need lvl 2 and lvl 3, and yes… you can grab these upgrades via the auction house, but damn is it expensive. 80-100-120 gold pieces for ten crystal chips, that you use all at once to upgrade only ONE rune. Great…

    To top it all off, you’ll even have to buy even more crystal chips to upgrade a lvl 2 rune to lvl 3…

    πŸ˜› It’ll take you months on end to grind the money to get at least lvl four runes. Even then, you’re still no match for guys with lvl 12 runes.

    πŸ™‚ I do appreciate your opinion though. I thought it was pretty play-to-win myself, and gPotato is doing a great job of trying to keep things in check and play-able.

    I will however stand by my statement, that this game is indeed Pay-to-win.

  21. Gmonst on May 30, 2012

    At the start he says this game is very popular. Is that actually true? They’re doing an american server merge, which suggests this game has a declining playerbase. I really love and want to play this game, but I worry about its future.

  22. ArtKing on May 30, 2012

    people saying that this game is pay to win are noobs. Of course, they need a source of income to keep the game up, it’s natural. But the thing is, everything in the item shop can be bought through in game gold. You just have to work hard for it if you don’t want to spend anything. Go play pay to play games if you don’t want pay to win. There, they get their income from your monthly pay or whatever system they have. I haven’t spent anything in the game but I can already top the dps meter without high lvled runes. Then again, farming for runes is quite easy. I’m gonna get full lvl 7 runes soon, I already have a lion mount, and a lot of cash ship stuffs. All that from just hard work.

  23. common sense on May 29, 2012

    Cmon guys dont believe in everything what ppl say or write without tryin…=/ Allods is F2P system with cash shop…OFC it have cash shop where ppl can buy stuff. Otherwise game wouldnt be alive and regularly updated. They need money too. Nothin (!) and not a single game in this world is totally free…dont be fool to believe in that. Now about cash shop…yes you can buy some stuff like crystal chips in cs for upgrading runes…but you guys dont know one important thing…to upgrade runes to high lvl cost a LOT. Many players choose to spend like 20-30 euros (im talking about eu version) and get runes around max lvl5. Thats completely enough for normal game. If you met ppl with high runes 7-8-9lvl it doesnt mean that every of them paid with real money…some of them acctually play game for very long time (2 years +)!! That way is very possible to get runes at least lvl8…it is trust me i have friends there who for 2 y didnt spend singe dime and they have runes 7-8-9 lvl…its play to win! Not pay to win…everythin you can have without payin real money. Everythin…im playin atm for less then a month and i already have 2 mounts…lot of cash (im using AH offten) and 444/444 runes…i spend 20e on runes and thats enough for start the game. Game is very good, nice production, offten updated, lot of fun…with floods of new players (again im talking about EU one ) and im having a lot of fun. You wont see much ppl with high runes…a lot of players have max lvl 3-4 and that makes them normal not OP oponents in pvp. Try the game first and then decide is it bad or not. Cheers and sry for bad english and walltext..=)

    • dbee on May 29, 2012

      so therefore its pay to win…..it takes 2yrs? for someone to get lvl8 runes when someone can purchase them in hrs with real money? lol pay 2 win

      • Common sense on May 29, 2012

        Hello!? Yes someone acctually CAN buy high level runes right now…but the number of players who are acctually doing that is very small. Like i said it is VERY expencive. Theres a bunch of players with lower runes and not much with high…and among them is lot of players who acctually played game for some time and got runes with just playing. You can have everythin in the game without paying. There is no single item in cash shop exclusive for paying costumers. Free players can have all too…just takes time to get. It is F2P model for god sake…99,9% f2p games works like that. Wake up…there is nothin free nowadays. Allods is one of better games speaking of cash shopers/free players relation. Play to win over pay to win. In comparison with some other f2p titles i know Allods is more accessible for non paying customers.

      • ArtKing on May 30, 2012

        You’re just lazy, that’s all. It didn’t took me a year to reach full lvl 7’s. Full 7’s is actually good enough for the game. Imagine if they have to wait 2 yrs as well to buy lvl 8 runes, then that would make the item shop pointless and would result to the death of the game. Think about it before posting. That’s how free to play games work. They need a source of income.

  24. Warking on May 29, 2012

    So basically you need to pay to become pro? Cuz if it needs me to pay and become pro or play and get owned by cash players i will never play this game.

  25. stolennn1 on May 29, 2012

    I was kinda addicted to the game until I got to the PVP area and got pwnd by lower level players with lvl 7-8 runes .. Nothing I could’ve done…

    Anyways , could you do a p2w video of DC Universe Online?:)

    • Pikciux on May 29, 2012

      I dont think DCU is p2w game. The only thing u can buy is DLC packs where u unlock new powers, but those powers are not better like others. Every power is like the same, but u must choose the one u like most and learn to play as it.

      (Sry for bad english)

  26. kaotics on May 29, 2012

    I would never spend so many bucks (over $100) to play a f2p game, people who do that r just ridicilous imao. And if you can’t farm the cash shop currency, so people who don’t want to spend hundreds of bucks on it, I won’t even play it. Don’t get me wrong, if a game is fun and has a good balance and chance for people wether or not spending money on it (if you like the game, you gladly spending SOME imao) to go (not rush) to endgame, I’m playing it with no doubt. I play both, sub games and F2P if the F2P is fair.

  27. cacalips on May 29, 2012

    p2W since closed beta. nuff said

  28. Saex_Conroy on May 28, 2012

    That’s why there are World of Warcraft Private Servers, so that you can experience the most polished and balanced MMORPG for free. When you have WoW PServers, why would you ever want to play a different game that unsurprisingly much mimics WoW?

  29. Curst on May 28, 2012

    Well, maybe it’s not pay to win, since you can get everything by in-game means (endless grind + auction house). But it’s definetly pay to win ALOT faster and with much less effort. However what’s important for me is that this game is not “pay to have fun”, although it looks like not many players appreciate it nowadays.

    P.S. Hey, Magicman. Any chance that you’ll cover World of Tanks in one of the next “Pay to Win?” shows? Here in Russia it is considered one of the most fair (to non-paying members) games. So I’m curious what people think about it on the other side of Earth.

  30. Zverrr on May 28, 2012

    You need a new book of rules Magicman…
    example- on first PvP map guy with lvl 10 and 11 runes come and WIPE entire camp,players and NPC,and he was lvl 28. We tried to kill him but he kill about 7 players (plus all npc) For runes lvl 11 you need to grind about year or more playing. Then you must made new char,lvl-up to lvl 25 for first PvP map. That guy got his runes from cash shop (cc craft). He pay,he win in only 3 weeks of playing,rest of us need year to do so if we don’t pay…Not to mention things you get from mobs and only can be used with cash items…So,this is P2Win…Period! (sry about my bad english)

  31. Lera on May 28, 2012

    You know one point you didn’t mention are the new what I would call “Battle Mount” those are mounts which you can fight with and which are extremely powerful, the Overlord’s Aegis for example a sort of Tank and the “Titan” which is one which was seen on Russian Vids and which is yet to be coming, those are P2W, because if you look at them a non paying player is going to be mashed in a second by those, they say the “Titan” will be able to handle bosses which normally require teams to fight on its own and it will be useable in PvP which mean if you don’t have it, you are dead meat.
    So at that point the game will indeed be seriously advantaged to the payers, since you can expect they aren’t something you get with in-game, sure maybe they will be for sell for points which can be bought in-game, but let us be realistic, those mounts will be out of pretty much all players hands which are not payers because even if in theory you can buy in a way points for the store with gold, it is very very costy and those kind of mounts are going to go for a ungodly price which would be virtually impossible for non payers to get, sure you can say its not a true P2W because in theory all the players can get them, but you should take the practical in consideration, if something cost 3k store points, its like 6-12k gold ingame at least I think… I heard that at best you get a conversion of 500 points for 1k gold… but it tend to go for more unless you have the right connections. The very fact that at first only payers will be able to get them 99% of the time and than maybe after a year out it will be more like 95% of the people which have it are payers, it still will break the game badly in the payers advantage for a very long time.
    You should consider adapting your definition about P2W on a on the spot basis, if within the first month its out less than 5% of the non-payers players can get it, it mean its game breaking toward the payers, you should seek to make a more balance definition which take in consideration both the theoretical and the practical, that something is “available” to non-payers doesn’t mean its really available to non-payers practically, if you have to grind at the highest level for over a month, 20+ hours a week to afford something it shouldn’t be considered truly available.

    • ArtKing on May 30, 2012

      Unfortunately no, it can’t solo a boss. I’ve seen it a lot in PVP and it’s nothing to be scared of. It’s faster, can run through water, and it absorbs a lot and I mean a lot of damage but that’s all it is. It doesn’t deal as much damage as you are saying. Btw, I’m a scout and it doesn’t deal as much damage to me. How much more tanks.

  32. Balt on May 28, 2012

    2 games that I hate for being p2w are BattleForge and PoxNora. Both strategy games.

  33. asdasds on May 28, 2012

    i don”t think a saw a single f2p mmo that it’s not pay to win, that is if you want to compete

  34. Balt on May 28, 2012

    Where did G1Teanji go?

    • mmobomb Author on May 28, 2012

      He is working on another episode πŸ™‚

      • Balt on May 28, 2012

        Phew, I thought he flew away.

        Keep it up!

  35. ThcMonkee on May 28, 2012

    The Allods mounts is a great example of developers making the content purposely boring for the nonpaying customer and it’s just downright sleazy.

    Furthermore, the “be grateful that you are playing it for free” argument is invalid and close minded. F2P model wasn’t given birth by the kindness of developers. F2P is a payment model tailored by the current consumer mentality. Nothing really changed in the fairness department, the scale of fairness wasn’t tipped in any one direction. Good games still make money. Good marketing calls still make even more money.

    And slap me around with a banana and call me orange if i’m going to play a game just because i can. Not to mention give money into a game to make it less boring.

    … I went of the main subject… What i am trying to say is that i can neither disagree nor agree with MagicMans categorization because i don’t think it is that black and white

  36. allods on May 28, 2012

    also i agree with magicman this game is not pay to win but it dam sure is hard as hell for a play to win it has gotten better over the course of time the game use to be really bad pay to win back during teps curse and what not it has gotten a ton more f2p ever since then.

    some examples ill give u mounts u dont need them theres so much running around that u do its not worth the money u would poor into them best thing to do is wait till an event and get a mount then or not get one at all. sec the biggest concern is runes the best thing to do is spend money on one toon and get him like lvl 4-5 offense to 4-5 defence runes then from there just grind gold for the money exchanger and slowly over time upgrade ur runes to lvl 7s or 8 no higher than lvl 7 anything higher is just not worth the time or even the money.

    also another thing most ppl in this game have done the spend money on runes get them to lvl 4 and after that just upgraded them to lvl 5 6 8 10s 11s it has took them a long time and alot of gold but that is what most ppl have done. and to be frank if u really want a f2p game dont play any game that says f2p on it either A) go for games that have a one time buying fee or B) go for games like league of legends that game is totally free and alot cheaper than allods. or C) play pay to play games simple as that.

  37. TheGamer on May 28, 2012

    Allods is pay to win, some people already said that, but just because the game have cash shop items on auctions houses dont make then “free-to-play”, you need to see how much it costs and how much you can farm without losing you life.Cash shop in Allods, in my opnion even crash the game economy, since paying members get a huge advantage since they can buy something and sell for a astronomical price, while non-paying needs to grind a lot to buy that thing, and many players leave the game because of that, since the last time i played all the servers are deserted!!And end-game guilds that require cash shop items?Damm, this game is lost…

    • Name (Required) on May 28, 2012

      ya u know the servers are so low now they are mergeing the two servers to one that right there is a bad sign when a game does that and its only had two servers since start up.

  38. ZED_pt on May 28, 2012

    Your knowledge of the game itself is totally wrong.
    Game is not a grindfest,u can get to end-game wiith almost no grinding at all(proof of that,you where in a lvl 16/18 at lvl 20)
    And the game is definetly pay to win.Besides runes that someone already pointed out(i managed to make mid runes with game gold 7 off 6 def) you have strongboxes.
    Strongboxes are boxes that have a small chance to give you something really good and game changing and to get that you might be very lucky and get in your 1st 10/20 boxes but most of the time you end up buying 100+ to get it.And you get permanent items that make a huge diference in game experience to both people that have them and does who dont.I would have to grind for a year to get them when thers ppl spending 100$ in a day buying those.And they are avayable for a short period of time,its not like you can slowly buy them over time with game gold.
    Also a lot of items descriptions you gave when you opened cash shop are wrong and misleading

    • Magicman on May 28, 2012

      Hehe, I was in that zone because I didn’t want to get aggro while getting B-Roll footage…which as we saw didn’t work out 100% anyway lol. Compared to more modern MMOs where it’s a race to endgame you do have to admit that Allods is a bit of a quest grind. That’s not a bad thing though. I actually liked when MMOs made you work linger to get to endgame personally.

      Your other points are well received though. Strongboxes were not something I focused and should have mentioned and while I feel the Runes and Crystals aren’t game breaking since they can be bought from others or the AH, I can see where others would consider that P2W since they are pricey, I just personally do not think they are.

      Great post Zed!
      -Magicman

  39. bigguy on May 28, 2012

    just a couple of things. all free games are either pay to win or grind to buy. but these free games means if u get bored u dont have anything to worry about u can stop playing them and go the cheap way ptp it cost me nearly 90 british punds for 6k diamonds when it was double deal on them on RUNES OF MAGIC and they didnt even help so i stoped playing free games.

  40. me on May 27, 2012

    why all = mad? i want know! πŸ™

  41. TwoDigitScout on May 27, 2012

    Although, Pay 2 Win sucks peen in the way that it is used is uncool, you do have to understand the developer’s point of view that they need to make money to keep the servers up and people employed in the very least. I’m not looking for a full body argument, just be appreciative that you are playing a game for absolutely free (download client and playing it without as subscription) is pretty fantastic. I’ll buy into games i really dig, but its usually only cosmetic items like skins (League of Legends). That’s my worthless two cents.

    • Razer on May 28, 2012

      It goes way beyond the developers trying to make enough money to pay expenses. Server costs are actually very small compared to the obscene amounts of revenue that most f2p games generate. Generally, the aggressive, wallet-gouging business models you see in most games were not the decision of the developer, but the publisher. The only goal of a publisher is to make as much money as possible. As long as people continue pay, they don’t care if the playerbase is happy or not.

      • TwoDigitScout on May 28, 2012

        valid points

      • dbee on May 29, 2012

        and this is why big name mmo’s are failing because there getting to greedy and caring less about the game after release,they only see the money!if they cared more about the fun in games and look after there player base they wouldnt need to think about the money it would sell it self!

        • Razer on June 2, 2012

          Unfortunately, the suits at the head of most video game publishing companies are completely oblivious to what makes a game good and enjoyable. They just look at what games are making the most money and try to grab a slice of that revenue pie by imitating it.

  42. ThcMonkee on May 27, 2012

    I hate grind.

    I hate the fact that it’s normal for mmos to not be fun until you reach endgame. Presumption that only single player games can be fun through the entire playthrough and that repetitive quests is the only way to populate an mmo with “content”

    I hate Allods online. I hate everything that it represents and i would never spend money in it or any other mmo that literally did EVERYTHING by the mold.

    With that said, MagickMan, i think that you should either expand a little on your definitions of Play2Win and Pay2Win or at least add another category- Pay2HaveFun

    • Magicman on May 27, 2012

      This is an exceptionally interesting post! I too am getting sick of games becoming a totally different game at endgame. If the endgame is the “real” game then why did I have to do all that other crap just to get there? Start me there and let’s play!

      Pay2Have Fun could in fact be a very interesting and helpful addition….(mind starts spinning with ideas) πŸ™‚
      Thanks,
      -Magicman

      • ThcMonkee on May 27, 2012

        If the game isn’t denying me content if I’m a nonpaying player then i would never call it Pay2Win. But the game isn’t out of the woods yet. The dev team isn’t automatically fair and modest at that point. I do not automatically feel respected as a player by the dev team. They can still suck.

        Drakensang, the diablo clone, awards its cash currency (some blue crystal) with quests completion. You get about 5 with each quest. But the only way to get health potions is with the cash currency. 100 crystals for 10 health potions… Health potions… How long would 10 HP potions last in Diablo ? Rhetorical. And you buy health potions as soon as you get to 100 crystals, so there is no way to buy anything else from the cash shop. It’s a trick by the development team, or rather, the marketing team.

        By awarding crystals with quests, Drakensang passes you test MagicMan. Following you definition- Drakensang enters Play2Win category with flying colors and all happy and proud Drakensang is high-fiveing its equals like League of Legends. A game that i have immense respect for, even though i don’t play it anymore. It simply isn’t fair towards the games truly deserving of being in that category.

        Drakensang and Allods do not deny content, they make it tedious and simply less fun by precisely planed out design. If i had to categorize it, in service of fairness, i would put those two games, and many others, in Pay4Fun category.

        Just wanted to expand on my point.

    • ZED_pt on May 28, 2012

      Have you actually played the game?
      Like i said in my post below,you almost dont have to grind in this game.Just do all the quests.
      And you have a lot of different type of quests and a great story to go with them,off course you also have many kill XX quests but not as much as most MMOΒ΄s.
      You also have periodic Lucky moments,that give you things like double experience/reputation,etc.

      • ThcMonkee on May 28, 2012

        You see where we differ is our opinion towards the grind. You don’t really mind it.

        That’s why you only see grinding as killing mobs outside of quests. I see grinding as doing the same thing over and over again in the purpose of leveling and reaching endgame.

        Allods does exactly the same thing with each region. Each region has the same type of quests, the same tempo, the same logic of advancement. Just pay attention to it and you will see.When i was playing it i could literally for-see what quests i am roughly going to get in each settlement with a pretty decent accuracy, and not because i am magical, but because i hate grind.

        Allods is a grinders game.

  43. Dantiko on May 27, 2012

    First of all, we must stabilish what is Pay to Win and what is Play to Win:
    Pay to win, for Magicman, is as he said, that the free player does not have access to, but in my view, and many other people too, it’s that and something more, some games have premium items and things no free player can ever get, other games, like Allods, have those items and allow free players to have them, but only if he buys for another player (or buys with real money, which is not in question here), which is in fact not cheap, and can take endless grinding and hours of gameplay to obtain what a payer player buys with some dollars, that’s why I also think Allods is Pay to Win, or in a middle term, which has no name yet, but that payers get in a day what free players spent an year to acquire.
    Play to Win games are games that, in a straight line between Free to Play and Pay to win, it’s like 25% or less close to Free to Play than to Pay to win, Allods for example I would say it’s 75% close to Pay to Win, also Play to Win games may have a cash shop, every game has, but only with like 10% plus exp for example, nothing beyond, and that in-game currency could buy too, not that it wouldn’t be wise to pay in those games, but that it would need at least a month to get what payers get in a week, not like Allods.
    Also Magicman, I thought you would say Allods is Pay to Win, or at least in a middle term, I was very sad when I heard your opinion, just make sure you don’t sell yourself to those companies, Magicman, there aren’t so much game commentators that tell the truth, but we all gotta impose ourselves, we don’t live to play on a trial version of games disguised with signs as “Free to Play forever”, come on, hope you understand.

    • Magicman on May 27, 2012

      This is a GREAT post and is dead on with what I’ve been saying. I gave my definition of pay to win. I don’t think the runes and crystals are pay to win since they can be purchased in game (yes they can be pricey) but maybe someone else does. If you view it that way then cool! We have a different opinion.

      Well worded and described my friend.

      And don’t worry about me selling lol, this isn’t my real job I do this for fun. Just take a look at the Blacklight Retribution call i still get flack for! πŸ™‚
      WELL SAID!
      -Magicman

  44. Emil on May 27, 2012

    This stinks πŸ˜€ I leveled up enough to get to the pvp zones and guess what? The 1st guy i meet (the same lvl as me) 2 shots me ( 2 hits for 5k dmg) Psy-sucker….

  45. theyaN on May 27, 2012

    Do NOT be fooled! The biggest problem Allods had, still has and will have are those crystal chips! Those are the only material available in game that allows you to upgrade and create runes which are permanent buffs reflecting the percentage of your outgoing damage and the incoming damage by A LOT. And the worst part is, the system is exponential which means that you need for example, 2 level 3 runes and a handful of crystal chips to make a level 4 rune. Simple mathematics show us that you need more than 5k crystal chips to make any high level runes and as you saw for yourself, that’s more than 1000$. There is no place that those drop in game, so you can only buy them for yourself from the cash shop or buy from other players who overcharge for them severly. This game is an absolute PAY TO WIN, do NOT doubt that for a second. I’ve played it for a few months and tried to find a way around it, but there is no such way. Don’t get me wrong, I’d come back instantly if they removed that rune system, but knowning the companys policy and history, that is very unlikely to happen.

    • Magicman on May 27, 2012

      You have a valid point. But because they are so readily available in the auction house I don’t consider them pay to win. Some people do, and that’s ok. You stated your opinion honestly and politely. We disagree, that’s cool. That’s why there’s more than one game out there lol.

      Love your post!
      -Magicman

  46. Name (Required) on May 27, 2012

    Everybody knows that allods is pay to win πŸ˜‰

  47. failtastic on May 27, 2012

    I think as it stands, Pay to win is more than just game breaking Items you can purchase. The simple fact that you bought anything in this game removes all you ability to be a fair judge.

    You are in fact Bias.
    If you want to continue to rate games as Play to win you need to play them as someone who purchases nothing.. try and reach the end game.. see how easy it is without spending a dime.
    Try and PVP see if you get killed in 2 hits, Even Attempt to raid and run dungeons.

    Its annoying to see someone saying the game is not play to win as they talk up there upgrading mount and justify their purchase, to be honest it seems like you where hired by Allods to do a biased review and thats just outright immoral.

    My definition of Play 2 win is that you cant thoroughly enjoy the game without spending money..

    • Magicman on May 27, 2012

      So if ANYONE ever uses a cash shop they can no longer provide an unbiased point of view on that game ever? Your statement makes little to no sense. In fact in this video I pointed out that there are items that endgame guilds are going to expect that you have. If that’s game breaking for you then fine, you would have a valid point. To me it’s not. The video is about opinion. There’s mine. A better way to state your point above like a grown up would have been “Hey, I disagree with your opinion, to me there are a few things based on my playing to level 51 that are kind of pay to win. They are..” etc etc.

      Then readers would have taken your point seriously and so would I. To start off be saying that anyone who ever buys an item is immediately unable to fairly judge a game made your entire post less credible. To me someone buying an item actually makes then a slightly BETTER judge at if the game is pay to win or not. They have actually examined the cash shop and deemed the game worthy of a purchase at all. They honestly probably know a bit more about the cash shop and the items in it than someone who never opened it.
      Thanks anyway
      -Magicman

      • failtastic on May 27, 2012

        YES! If someone pays for a game they will never see it in the same light as someone who dose not.. You dont judge a games Pay to win Aspect by spending money.. thats just not how its done, you do it by trying to achieve what those who spend money do without buying cash shop items.

        Yes i suppose its possible to buy 1 item and stay credible but the fact remains that once you purchase said item, your more likely to buy more, you find a deeper connection with a game, and you feel a need to stay committed to it(at least if you spend enough). All those things make you bias towards a game.

      • failtastic on May 27, 2012

        Feel as though i should clarify, When i say

        “you do it by trying to achieve what those who spend money do without buying cash shop items.”

        i dont mean novelty items, i mean crap like runes and potions yatta yatta yatta.. And having guilds that require you to buy cash shop items is just a better example of why this game is Pay to win..

        • Magicman on May 27, 2012

          See failtastic! This is a MUCH better way to express your view. It’s clear, professional, and accurate. In fact I mentioned in the video that certain endgame guilds and PvP groups will expect you to have some items from the cash shop. While I don’t consider this pay to win (since those items are available in game from the auction house or other players) I can understand why others may view it that way.

          I still don’t think that making a purchase makes you biased on judging if a game is pay to win. And actually I agree with your above statement. Making a purchase may make you biased towards if it is a good game or not (as you mentioned you’re more invested” but I don’t think my buying a mount (that I could have gotten in game anyway, I was just lazy) hinders the pay to win ability to judge.

          We agree on some things and we disagree. And that’s cool. That’s why we visit websites to check things out and read other people’s opinion. Trust me my friend, I appreciate your posts and the fact that we may disagree, that’s what makes gaming fun!
          Thanks!
          -Magicman

          • failtastic on May 27, 2012

            I am glad, below post was after i read this one.. but it still stands i suppose.

            I just want you to know this is not personal in annnnnnyyyyy way. and its hard to make that sound true so i will add a smiley to help prove it

            πŸ˜€

      • failtastic on May 27, 2012

        okay ill just tie up my opinion in this last little post than I am out of here,

        I am in fact questioning the ability for this video to be perceived as anything but advertisement.

        I am not trying to attack you directly, to be honest i thought the video was well made but it seemed as though you spent more time talking about the advantages of spending money in the game than how reasonable the game is to play without spending any money.

        And in the future i would refrain from telling someone how they should go about complaining or how they should structure their comments. Yes this is the internet but that job is for 4th grade English teachers and not a “Grown up” as you so blatantly throw around assuming everyone around you is below your intelligence and ability to judge something. I in fact spend tons of money on F2P games and was merely trying to help you hold on to some integrity with my above comments. Keep in mind that a majority of people who watch this video will be people not willing to spend money and you throwing cash around in a video is a good way to loose any followers.

        As every comment around here states and will continue to state..

        This game is Pay to win, Even the people who pay to win it know that and enjoy it for that reason..

        I am not returning to this post so feel free to argue anything i say, try and keep it well formatted like a grown up

        • Magicman on May 27, 2012

          Clearly you missed my points if that’s how you took all of that.
          Anyway, have fun!
          -Magicman

        • Magicman on May 27, 2012

          HAHA! The same thing happened to me that did to you, I read this prior to the other post. We disagree on a game. No biggie. I still say you have great points (and were no way less intelligent or able to judge) we just happened to not agree. It happens. I will also insert my smiley to show you that I am in no way offended and enjoyed our conversation! lol

          πŸ™‚

          -Magicman

      • MagicmanTheGrownUp on May 28, 2012

        “…to state your point above like a grown up…”

        The trolling is strong in this one, no doubt.

  48. scheme on May 27, 2012

    A NEW SHOW! , one word….HELL YEAH! opps that was two 8D

  49. Dantiko on May 27, 2012

    It is absolutely pay to win, you must spend around 5000 dollars in my country to get the lv 13 runes.

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