So End of Nations is going to be a MOBA. We’re all a bit surprised by that move, but with about 532 MOBAs coming out this year (approximately), maybe we shouldn’t be that surprised.




In fact, we probably shouldn’t be surprised in general that there are so many MOBAs in development, in beta, or have already launched. On some level, everyone wants to mimic League of Legends’ massive success, just like MMO devs tried to copy World of Warcraft’s formula for years. But simple economics and risk/reward analysis might also figure into things.

Consider this: A typical MMORPG has vast tracts of land (insert boob joke here), PvE, PvP, crafting, mounts, thousands of items, AI for hundreds of different monsters, lots of text, or voice acting in more modern games, and so on and so on.

Compare that to a typical MOBA, which is much more minimal in its raw components. A small number of maps – maybe only one or two – only one type of gameplay, virtually no PvE or AI, minimal itemization… Sure, new (and old) MOBAs are going to have balance issues between characters, and that’ll take a lot of time and effort to sort out, but that’s not any different than what any MMO faces.

Put simply, making a MOBA requires significantly less expense and time for what can, theoretically, still be a World of Warcraft-like payday. If you don’t have a huge hit, you can still turn a profit with a relatively small player base.

Even Riot didn’t anticipate League of Legends’ explosive success. President Marc Merrill said that their “initial target was 20,000 concurrent users.” They planned small, with a likely minimal budget, and when they hit it big there were growing pains to contend with, but nothing that couldn’t be overcome with time and a whole lot of sudden money.

Consider the opposite position of having a big budget, planning big, needing a game to be big – only to have it be small and cause your entire company to collapse. I’ll take the growing pains any day.

And if it fails to live up to expectations – not something any developer wants, but something every one should plan for – then you’ve invested a lot less time, money, and manpower. It’s a lot easier, one would think, to recover from a failed MOBA than it is to recover from a failed MMO.

True, we probably have too many MOBAs coming out this year, and the market is probably going to become oversaturated with subpar efforts. But before you condemn your favorite company for “selling out” to the MOBA crowd, at least understand why they’re doing it. If it was your money, would you want to go for the lower-risk, quickly developed MOBA or the higher-risk, longer-to-develop MMO? If it was your company and your $millions at stake, what would you do?

By Jason Winter

43 Readers Commented

Join discussion
  1. Superkillermonke on July 22, 2013

    I personally am looking forward to destiny because i freaking love FPS games, plus it’s going to be a MMO? WHAT????????? Normally i don’t like MMO’s but i feel like a MMO FPS game will just be amazing.

    Do you think this will be a hit game? reply if you think so as well.

  2. GamingMaster on July 20, 2013

    I just wish they make an actual RTS … and MOBA is not RTS…

    something like civilization 5 or like older classic games like age of empires…

    • giochi-mmo.it on July 22, 2013

      I dream for a long time a game like this. I do not understand why they have not yet developed.

  3. reavermyst on July 18, 2013

    Welp, even if making EoN a MOBA is a “Safe” bet, I’m not going to excuse Trion for it unless they’re just saying MOBA as a buzz word and the game isn’t really changed to fit the genre.

  4. ExHuman on July 18, 2013

    its just so easy to make another generic moba.
    eaven easier than another generic shooter.

    • Reavermyst on July 18, 2013

      You obviously never made games before. generic MMOFPS titles need even less work than mobas as all you need are player assets, weapons, arenas, and simple gun-play mechanics to incorporate into a shooter. Mobas on the other hand, require AI programing, character balancing, many mathematical equations to affect progression in games, among other things.

  5. zoren on July 18, 2013

    either way, the amt of mobas is too damn high

  6. some random scottish guy on July 18, 2013

    Man i really hate how people have to comment on every single comment and lay it out like some sort of home work assignment. Get a grip will you, bunch of OCD lunatics.

    Be it not OCD then your just plain smart asses who think you know it all, your right they are wrong.

    why is there so many moba ? because theres a lot of kids who like this sort of crap and it really shows on these comments.

  7. sethsamson on July 18, 2013

    i prefer Dota2 than LoL … and i think that Dota ( around 2003 ) was first as a mod to WoW3 than LoL ( 2009 ) so who is mimic whom …
    and in these days … every game from RPG to Shooter MMOs or Singel is copy of copy of old ones…
    there is no big innovations in my opinion in games ..
    last game that really was innovative for me as oold player since atarii 800xl ;p was splinter cell first part … where u could do all that stuff …

    but now even most epic game like WarFrame is just run and shoot every thing thats move..
    but could be so much more …

  8. Bob on July 18, 2013

    Honestly there are not that many MOBA games. If you include Third Person hybrids you still don’t have 20.

    But they are being cloned for the same reason WoW was 5 years ago. They’re popular and make $$.

  9. krazydoom on July 18, 2013

    What i want to see is RTS games like Starcraft 2 going f2p. I wanted End of nations to be RTS. Moba has nothing to do with real RTS games.

    Just look how Command and Conquer 4 failed trying to blend MOBA and RTS.

    There are lot MMORPG and everyone can find some type they like.

    But there is lack of real RTS games. So just imagine what fame will C&C online get if game ends up to be competetive and not pay2win.

    When im up to MMORTS i just have to say that iavoid trash games like Stronghold Online or Anno Online just becouse older games in that series offered more then bland travian like gameplay.

    • iluvgamez on July 18, 2013

      Sorry to tell you, but C&C Online wont be F2P. Atleast not like LoL or PoE and so on. Its EA, they want money. Besides, there are still ppl playing C&C? The last years were just crap if it comes to C&C games.

  10. Patrik on July 18, 2013

    In my opinion Dota2 and League of Legends will be best of theyr genre because they are pretty different and other MOBAs are just like a copies of this two.

  11. Frylock on July 17, 2013

    Even Riot didn’t anticipate League of Legends’ explosive success. President Marc Merrill said that their “initial target was 20,000 concurrent users.” They planned small, with a likely minimal budget, and when they hit it big there were growing pains to contend with, but nothing that couldn’t be overcome with time and a whole lot of sudden money.

    Consider the opposite position of having a big budget, planning big, needing a game to be big – only to have it be small and cause your entire company to collapse. I’ll take the growing pains any day.

    And if it fails to live up to expectations – not something any developer wants, but something every one should plan for – then you’ve invested a lot less time, money, and manpower. It’s a lot easier, one would think, to recover from a failed MOBA than it is to recover from a failed MMO.

    True, we probably have too many MOBAs coming out this year, and the market is probably going to become oversaturated with subpar efforts. But before you condemn your favorite company for “selling out” to the MOBA crowd, at least understand why they’re doing it. If it was your money, would you want to go for the lower-risk, quickly developed MOBA or the higher-risk, longer-to-develop MMO? If it was your company and your $millions at stake, what would you do?

    By Jason Winter

    13 Comments
    Keylock32
    July 17, 2013 at 5:04 pm It’s a progress (whether bad or good) from old classic grind RPG
    it has everything that players wants (who love the genre) also have almost everything an RPG genre would have (from point & click part)
    it has grind part (from creep/mobs/monster or what ever you want to call it), and you don’t have to spend loads amount of time to achieve it.
    it has PVP (which is main reason people playing MMORPG)
    it has teamworks element
    it has multiple/lot’s of gameplay variety (depend on what hero you pick)

    BUT, what I don’t understand is… every games turns out a copy of a copy.
    just like the old RPG turns out to be.

    in the end, just few famous (or new one with large playerbase) will survive
    because it’s meant to be short to play, but repetitive there isn’t much things for publisher/developer to make a profits, but dota2 probably can be a good example.

    but then again… we will get through another copy of a copy.

    Reply
    Takerukun3
    July 17, 2013 at 5:07 pm 500?????? mounted. we need a list of 500 mobas please. cover them all.

    Reply
    Flevalt
    July 17, 2013 at 6:10 pm ^This.

    Go!

    Reply anip
    July 17, 2013 at 5:14 pm I don’t play MOBA… the only one I’ve played was from 8+ years ago on Warcraft III…

    Mostly because I am more interested in PvE RPG instead of PvP Boxed
    I dislike PvP and always aim for PvE only servers in any game, lol.

    Plus.. 90% of all MOBA are exactly the same no matter if they’re in 2D, 2.5D, or 3D.
    All of them are always “inside a box” with “pre-created characters”
    There is no actual customization, since all characters start out as lv.1 and level up inside the box (this applies to all MOBA)

    Personally, I am getting tired of all these MOBAs.. needs more MMORPG.

    Reply
    Keylock32
    July 17, 2013 at 5:18 pm Something to add
    There are huge playerbase for this genre, but not all of it like it actually (because lack of good MMO with large playerbase nowdays)
    probably just log on once in a while and get stomped.

    why? because moba is very competitive game, something like overpowered items or hero can easily break the whole things.
    and because it’s very competitive not much player like it, 8 from 10 players (2 just quit instantly) will stay to survive while 3 from 8 is quitting after a while because they don’t have much time to understand the game mechanism.

    Teamwork Gameplay is the most important essence in moba game, while new player (who probably think they might do good enough if they farm a certain item) will get stomped with only chain of combo, and after 3-5 failed attempt and they didn’t change their gameplay, I can see which team is going to loose within 10 minutes.

    Reply
    TheGamer
    July 17, 2013 at 5:35 pm For me, i’m okay with MOBAs.I’m not a huge fan, but i like a match or two in DotA 2 or LoL.
    If people want to make a MOBA, fine, but please, do something different.Don’t just do a “DotA clone”, try making something different with the genre.For example, AirMech, it picked MOBA mechanics and mixed with more “micromanagement RTS”-style mechanics, and we can agree it is a good game.
    If you make a DotA clone, you will fail do gain some money.LoL players, DotA and DotA 2 players will not leave their games to play a new one, i won’t do that, now considering that, last time i heard, have 32 million players per month.That is basically 60% of the MOBA players.You can’t compete with that.You need to have something new, unless you want to lose some cash, you may say its “less expensive than a MMO”, but a loss is a loss.Also, if a indie dev (like the guy from AirMech) decided to do a DotA clone and fail, that probably means that he is going bankrupt.If you make something new, more players will be interested, more money you will have and you would have done something good for the genre.Everybody wins.

    Reply
    wahhh
    July 17, 2013 at 6:37 pm no one complains about the 500 wow copies that come out every year!

    Reply
    Sza
    July 17, 2013 at 6:41 pm Most of this companies trying to copy will fail,I believe LoL was mostly successfull because it was something new and unseen when it came out,but it also was innovative,when those companies(trying to copy the current MOBAs) come up with something innovative and different from what we have today thats when they will be successfull,Just like WoW,Dota,LoL.
    Spend more of your manwork and money on finding new ideas rather than just buying a bunch of things to put ontop of the current games.
    First come first served.

    Reply
    Kloakenstein
    July 17, 2013 at 6:57 pm Why is this even being asked? Why can’t there be so many MOBAs? That is like asking why are there so mmos or fighters, people want variety.

    Reply
    iluvgamez
    July 17, 2013 at 9:00 pm Yes, there is much variety beetween the Moba Games out there. xD In fighting games i dont have to play with people i dont understand or ppl they dont understand the game (even with 500wins and more which is scary).
    MMOs got atleast a storyline.
    But Mobas are just the same. Q,W,E,R maybe 1 or 2 other keys for something “special”. Almost every moba has the same map. (Sounds like something i could play on Game Boy actually)
    Most of them have bad controls, bad animations and a horrible balance.
    Im burnd out. If i see summoners rift one more time and hear that voice, i will pull out my eyes with a knife and for sure something like that with my ears. Not to meantion what i would do if im trying one more new moba that sucks more then the others bevor.

    Reply Treeman De Unmountable
    July 17, 2013 at 8:43 pm It sadden me that most new developers now refuse and scared to make or try something new; they just simply jump into someones’ bandwagon, in this case it would be League of Legends. But really, the true success is Defense of The Ancient 1.

    But the developers of that game move on to make League of Legends. ;D

    Reply
    Anon
    July 17, 2013 at 8:56 pm DOTA and LoL will likely be the only traditional MOBAs to shine.
    I don’t see Smite falling anytime soon either, its extremely well done and they way of the future for MOBAs, since it makes the former titles feel like childish antiques. But its pretty hard to flip playerbases overnight. I could see Smite slowly gaining headway though, and I doubt any copycats will steal its spot.

    Every time I see a new MOBA I just laugh. They all look awful. Its a sad day if we seriously have to now sift through billions of crappy copycat MOBAs while looking for MMOs, but then again I guess sifting through and actually trying dozens upon dozens of WoW clones in search for a real MMO was a bit more tedious.

    Reply
    Ero-Shinigami
    July 17, 2013 at 9:55 pm Nice point man, like if u see, the only mobas that really get the most attention is those 3, first Dota for obvious reasons, then LoL that kinda “revived” the moba when it was released, and being free helped that genre gain popularity, then Smite, that got the “hack&slash thirdperson” innovation to the genre, after a few new mobas that followed the flow “but with almost no innovation (See HoN, its almost the same as Dota) and then Dota 2 was released. Just like those years where every new mmo was a grindy fantasy-like game (Many could be cleary called WoW copies) its the same with Moba now, but since not many people like this and Rpg is very popular, its why there are more complains.

    Reply recap on comments
    July 17, 2013 at 9:59 pm 13 Comments
    Keylock32
    July 17, 2013 at 5:04 pm It’s a progress (whether bad or good) from old classic grind RPG
    it has everything that players wants (who love the genre) also have almost everything an RPG genre would have (from point & click part)
    it has grind part (from creep/mobs/monster or what ever you want to call it), and you don’t have to spend loads amount of time to achieve it.
    it has PVP (which is main reason people playing MMORPG)
    it has teamworks element
    it has multiple/lot’s of gameplay variety (depend on what hero you pick)

    BUT, what I don’t understand is… every games turns out a copy of a copy.
    just like the old RPG turns out to be.

    in the end, just few famous (or new one with large playerbase) will survive
    because it’s meant to be short to play, but repetitive there isn’t much things for publisher/developer to make a profits, but dota2 probably can be a good example.

    but then again… we will get through another copy of a copy.

    Reply
    Takerukun3
    July 17, 2013 at 5:07 pm 500?????? mounted. we need a list of 500 mobas please. cover them all.

    Reply
    Flevalt
    July 17, 2013 at 6:10 pm ^This.

    Go!

    Reply anip
    July 17, 2013 at 5:14 pm I don’t play MOBA… the only one I’ve played was from 8+ years ago on Warcraft III…

    Mostly because I am more interested in PvE RPG instead of PvP Boxed
    I dislike PvP and always aim for PvE only servers in any game, lol.

    Plus.. 90% of all MOBA are exactly the same no matter if they’re in 2D, 2.5D, or 3D.
    All of them are always “inside a box” with “pre-created characters”
    There is no actual customization, since all characters start out as lv.1 and level up inside the box (this applies to all MOBA)

    Personally, I am getting tired of all these MOBAs.. needs more MMORPG.

    Reply
    Keylock32
    July 17, 2013 at 5:18 pm Something to add
    There are huge playerbase for this genre, but not all of it like it actually (because lack of good MMO with large playerbase nowdays)
    probably just log on once in a while and get stomped.

    why? because moba is very competitive game, something like overpowered items or hero can easily break the whole things.
    and because it’s very competitive not much player like it, 8 from 10 players (2 just quit instantly) will stay to survive while 3 from 8 is quitting after a while because they don’t have much time to understand the game mechanism.

    Teamwork Gameplay is the most important essence in moba game, while new player (who probably think they might do good enough if they farm a certain item) will get stomped with only chain of combo, and after 3-5 failed attempt and they didn’t change their gameplay, I can see which team is going to loose within 10 minutes.

    Reply
    TheGamer
    July 17, 2013 at 5:35 pm For me, i’m okay with MOBAs.I’m not a huge fan, but i like a match or two in DotA 2 or LoL.
    If people want to make a MOBA, fine, but please, do something different.Don’t just do a “DotA clone”, try making something different with the genre.For example, AirMech, it picked MOBA mechanics and mixed with more “micromanagement RTS”-style mechanics, and we can agree it is a good game.
    If you make a DotA clone, you will fail do gain some money.LoL players, DotA and DotA 2 players will not leave their games to play a new one, i won’t do that, now considering that, last time i heard, have 32 million players per month.That is basically 60% of the MOBA players.You can’t compete with that.You need to have something new, unless you want to lose some cash, you may say its “less expensive than a MMO”, but a loss is a loss.Also, if a indie dev (like the guy from AirMech) decided to do a DotA clone and fail, that probably means that he is going bankrupt.If you make something new, more players will be interested, more money you will have and you would have done something good for the genre.Everybody wins.

    Reply
    wahhh
    July 17, 2013 at 6:37 pm no one complains about the 500 wow copies that come out every year!

    Reply
    Sza
    July 17, 2013 at 6:41 pm Most of this companies trying to copy will fail,I believe LoL was mostly successfull because it was something new and unseen when it came out,but it also was innovative,when those companies(trying to copy the current MOBAs) come up with something innovative and different from what we have today thats when they will be successfull,Just like WoW,Dota,LoL.
    Spend more of your manwork and money on finding new ideas rather than just buying a bunch of things to put ontop of the current games.
    First come first served.

    Reply
    Kloakenstein
    July 17, 2013 at 6:57 pm Why is this even being asked? Why can’t there be so many MOBAs? That is like asking why are there so mmos or fighters, people want variety.

    Reply
    iluvgamez
    July 17, 2013 at 9:00 pm Yes, there is much variety beetween the Moba Games out there. xD In fighting games i dont have to play with people i dont understand or ppl they dont understand the game (even with 500wins and more which is scary).
    MMOs got atleast a storyline.
    But Mobas are just the same. Q,W,E,R maybe 1 or 2 other keys for something “special”. Almost every moba has the same map. (Sounds like something i could play on Game Boy actually)
    Most of them have bad controls, bad animations and a horrible balance.
    Im burnd out. If i see summoners rift one more time and hear that voice, i will pull out my eyes with a knife and for sure something like that with my ears. Not to meantion what i would do if im trying one more new moba that sucks more then the others bevor.

    Reply Treeman De Unmountable
    July 17, 2013 at 8:43 pm It sadden me that most new developers now refuse and scared to make or try something new; they just simply jump into someones’ bandwagon, in this case it would be League of Legends. But really, the true success is Defense of The Ancient 1.

    But the developers of that game move on to make League of Legends. ;D

    Reply
    Anon
    July 17, 2013 at 8:56 pm DOTA and LoL will likely be the only traditional MOBAs to shine.
    I don’t see Smite falling anytime soon either, its extremely well done and they way of the future for MOBAs, since it makes the former titles feel like childish antiques. But its pretty hard to flip playerbases overnight. I could see Smite slowly gaining headway though, and I doubt any copycats will steal its spot.

    Every time I see a new MOBA I just laugh. They all look awful. Its a sad day if we seriously have to now sift through billions of crappy copycat MOBAs while looking for MMOs, but then again I guess sifting through and actually trying dozens upon dozens of WoW clones in search for a real MMO was a bit more tedious.

    Reply
    Ero-Shinigami
    July 17, 2013 at 9:55 pm Nice point man, like if u see, the only mobas that really get the most attention is those 3, first Dota for obvious reasons, then LoL that kinda “revived” the moba when it was released, and being free helped that genre gain popularity, then Smite, that got the “hack&slash thirdperson” innovation to the genre, after a few new mobas that followed the flow “but with almost no innovation (See HoN, its almost the same as Dota) and then Dota 2 was released. Just like those years where every new mmo was a grindy fantasy-like game (Many could be cleary called WoW copies) its the same with Moba now, but since not many people like this and Rpg is very popular, its why there are more complains.

    Reply_

  12. recap on comments on July 17, 2013

    13 Comments
    Keylock32
    July 17, 2013 at 5:04 pm It’s a progress (whether bad or good) from old classic grind RPG
    it has everything that players wants (who love the genre) also have almost everything an RPG genre would have (from point & click part)
    it has grind part (from creep/mobs/monster or what ever you want to call it), and you don’t have to spend loads amount of time to achieve it.
    it has PVP (which is main reason people playing MMORPG)
    it has teamworks element
    it has multiple/lot’s of gameplay variety (depend on what hero you pick)

    BUT, what I don’t understand is… every games turns out a copy of a copy.
    just like the old RPG turns out to be.

    in the end, just few famous (or new one with large playerbase) will survive
    because it’s meant to be short to play, but repetitive there isn’t much things for publisher/developer to make a profits, but dota2 probably can be a good example.

    but then again… we will get through another copy of a copy.

    Reply
    Takerukun3
    July 17, 2013 at 5:07 pm 500?????? mounted. we need a list of 500 mobas please. cover them all.

    Reply
    Flevalt
    July 17, 2013 at 6:10 pm ^This.

    Go!

    Reply anip
    July 17, 2013 at 5:14 pm I don’t play MOBA… the only one I’ve played was from 8+ years ago on Warcraft III…

    Mostly because I am more interested in PvE RPG instead of PvP Boxed
    I dislike PvP and always aim for PvE only servers in any game, lol.

    Plus.. 90% of all MOBA are exactly the same no matter if they’re in 2D, 2.5D, or 3D.
    All of them are always “inside a box” with “pre-created characters”
    There is no actual customization, since all characters start out as lv.1 and level up inside the box (this applies to all MOBA)

    Personally, I am getting tired of all these MOBAs.. needs more MMORPG.

    Reply
    Keylock32
    July 17, 2013 at 5:18 pm Something to add
    There are huge playerbase for this genre, but not all of it like it actually (because lack of good MMO with large playerbase nowdays)
    probably just log on once in a while and get stomped.

    why? because moba is very competitive game, something like overpowered items or hero can easily break the whole things.
    and because it’s very competitive not much player like it, 8 from 10 players (2 just quit instantly) will stay to survive while 3 from 8 is quitting after a while because they don’t have much time to understand the game mechanism.

    Teamwork Gameplay is the most important essence in moba game, while new player (who probably think they might do good enough if they farm a certain item) will get stomped with only chain of combo, and after 3-5 failed attempt and they didn’t change their gameplay, I can see which team is going to loose within 10 minutes.

    Reply
    TheGamer
    July 17, 2013 at 5:35 pm For me, i’m okay with MOBAs.I’m not a huge fan, but i like a match or two in DotA 2 or LoL.
    If people want to make a MOBA, fine, but please, do something different.Don’t just do a “DotA clone”, try making something different with the genre.For example, AirMech, it picked MOBA mechanics and mixed with more “micromanagement RTS”-style mechanics, and we can agree it is a good game.
    If you make a DotA clone, you will fail do gain some money.LoL players, DotA and DotA 2 players will not leave their games to play a new one, i won’t do that, now considering that, last time i heard, have 32 million players per month.That is basically 60% of the MOBA players.You can’t compete with that.You need to have something new, unless you want to lose some cash, you may say its “less expensive than a MMO”, but a loss is a loss.Also, if a indie dev (like the guy from AirMech) decided to do a DotA clone and fail, that probably means that he is going bankrupt.If you make something new, more players will be interested, more money you will have and you would have done something good for the genre.Everybody wins.

    Reply
    wahhh
    July 17, 2013 at 6:37 pm no one complains about the 500 wow copies that come out every year!

    Reply
    Sza
    July 17, 2013 at 6:41 pm Most of this companies trying to copy will fail,I believe LoL was mostly successfull because it was something new and unseen when it came out,but it also was innovative,when those companies(trying to copy the current MOBAs) come up with something innovative and different from what we have today thats when they will be successfull,Just like WoW,Dota,LoL.
    Spend more of your manwork and money on finding new ideas rather than just buying a bunch of things to put ontop of the current games.
    First come first served.

    Reply
    Kloakenstein
    July 17, 2013 at 6:57 pm Why is this even being asked? Why can’t there be so many MOBAs? That is like asking why are there so mmos or fighters, people want variety.

    Reply
    iluvgamez
    July 17, 2013 at 9:00 pm Yes, there is much variety beetween the Moba Games out there. xD In fighting games i dont have to play with people i dont understand or ppl they dont understand the game (even with 500wins and more which is scary).
    MMOs got atleast a storyline.
    But Mobas are just the same. Q,W,E,R maybe 1 or 2 other keys for something “special”. Almost every moba has the same map. (Sounds like something i could play on Game Boy actually)
    Most of them have bad controls, bad animations and a horrible balance.
    Im burnd out. If i see summoners rift one more time and hear that voice, i will pull out my eyes with a knife and for sure something like that with my ears. Not to meantion what i would do if im trying one more new moba that sucks more then the others bevor.

    Reply Treeman De Unmountable
    July 17, 2013 at 8:43 pm It sadden me that most new developers now refuse and scared to make or try something new; they just simply jump into someones’ bandwagon, in this case it would be League of Legends. But really, the true success is Defense of The Ancient 1.

    But the developers of that game move on to make League of Legends. ;D

    Reply
    Anon
    July 17, 2013 at 8:56 pm DOTA and LoL will likely be the only traditional MOBAs to shine.
    I don’t see Smite falling anytime soon either, its extremely well done and they way of the future for MOBAs, since it makes the former titles feel like childish antiques. But its pretty hard to flip playerbases overnight. I could see Smite slowly gaining headway though, and I doubt any copycats will steal its spot.

    Every time I see a new MOBA I just laugh. They all look awful. Its a sad day if we seriously have to now sift through billions of crappy copycat MOBAs while looking for MMOs, but then again I guess sifting through and actually trying dozens upon dozens of WoW clones in search for a real MMO was a bit more tedious.

    Reply
    Ero-Shinigami
    July 17, 2013 at 9:55 pm Nice point man, like if u see, the only mobas that really get the most attention is those 3, first Dota for obvious reasons, then LoL that kinda “revived” the moba when it was released, and being free helped that genre gain popularity, then Smite, that got the “hack&slash thirdperson” innovation to the genre, after a few new mobas that followed the flow “but with almost no innovation (See HoN, its almost the same as Dota) and then Dota 2 was released. Just like those years where every new mmo was a grindy fantasy-like game (Many could be cleary called WoW copies) its the same with Moba now, but since not many people like this and Rpg is very popular, its why there are more complains.

    Reply-

  13. Anon on July 17, 2013

    DOTA and LoL will likely be the only traditional MOBAs to shine.
    I don’t see Smite falling anytime soon either, its extremely well done and they way of the future for MOBAs, since it makes the former titles feel like childish antiques. But its pretty hard to flip playerbases overnight. I could see Smite slowly gaining headway though, and I doubt any copycats will steal its spot.

    Every time I see a new MOBA I just laugh. They all look awful. Its a sad day if we seriously have to now sift through billions of crappy copycat MOBAs while looking for MMOs, but then again I guess sifting through and actually trying dozens upon dozens of WoW clones in search for a real MMO was a bit more tedious.

    • Ero-Shinigami on July 17, 2013

      Nice point man, like if u see, the only mobas that really get the most attention is those 3, first Dota for obvious reasons, then LoL that kinda “revived” the moba when it was released, and being free helped that genre gain popularity, then Smite, that got the “hack&slash thirdperson” innovation to the genre, after a few new mobas that followed the flow “but with almost no innovation (See HoN, its almost the same as Dota) and then Dota 2 was released. Just like those years where every new mmo was a grindy fantasy-like game (Many could be cleary called WoW copies) its the same with Moba now, but since not many people like this and Rpg is very popular, its why there are more complains.

    • Yeah, LoL for it’s easy to learn method and Dota (and 2) for it’s highly competitive sceen, but you also have to remember HoN who was the only competitive moba for a while (Between dota and LoL’s release) and alot of the stuff in HoN was implemented in LoL (for example weekly hero/champ rotation, but the idea was scrached from HoN) But the thing many misses now is that HoN has taken a different part (which I personally dislikes) to a more own form of game, with new picking system, new heroes, new items and so on and fourth.

      But still I think you’re right that only dota, dota2 and LoL will be viewed as THE moba, which is a shame since there are atleast 2 mobas that are better than LoL when it comes to competitive play (which is the fundamental aspect of a moba)

  14. Treeman De Unmountable on July 17, 2013

    It sadden me that most new developers now refuse and scared to make or try something new; they just simply jump into someones’ bandwagon, in this case it would be League of Legends. But really, the true success is Defense of The Ancient 1. 🙂

    But the developers of that game move on to make League of Legends. ;D

    • iexies on July 18, 2013

      the lead modder of dota made dota2 with valve.
      Riot took one of the original creators of dota (guinsoo) and that fat d***head pendragon who was just the owner of dota-allstars forums.

      Icefrog had the most influence in developing dota , so saying that everyone who made dota now works at lol is tottaly unacurate

  15. Kloakenstein on July 17, 2013

    Why is this even being asked? Why can’t there be so many MOBAs? That is like asking why are there so mmos or fighters, people want variety.

    • iluvgamez on July 17, 2013

      Yes, there is much variety beetween the Moba Games out there. xD In fighting games i dont have to play with people i dont understand or ppl they dont understand the game (even with 500wins and more which is scary).
      MMOs got atleast a storyline.
      But Mobas are just the same. Q,W,E,R maybe 1 or 2 other keys for something “special”. Almost every moba has the same map. (Sounds like something i could play on Game Boy actually)
      Most of them have bad controls, bad animations and a horrible balance.
      Im burnd out. If i see summoners rift one more time and hear that voice, i will pull out my eyes with a knife and for sure something like that with my ears. Not to meantion what i would do if im trying one more new moba that sucks more then the others bevor.

    • M-16 on July 18, 2013

      @Kloakenstein I gotta to agree with you on the last part. Yes, people want variety, but what you don’t understand is that people who are not fans of the genre don’t see the variety you’re talking about. It’s like every moba is a copy-paste of each other. I know you’re probably gonna say:”but the same can be said to other genres”, but I give credit to non-moba devs for trying to make something different. Take age of wushu for example, it doesn’t matter how much variety it brings, it feels like snail games is at least trying to bring variety to an overly saturated genre.
      For me and other like me, and as jason wrote in this amazing artice, many devs are trying to mimic LoL’s success and it looks like they’re trying to do so by copying almost every aspect and feature LoL has.
      Because not many people like moba (I mean, the more talked about mobas are LoL and dota 2), those people complain that the copy-paste factor in moba is huge,

      • Kloakenstein on July 19, 2013

        That’s the thing tho, I do see that all people see is the map and the qwer keys. That’s the problem, you shouldn’t look at it like that and that’s why I referenced a fighter. the stages on most fighters excluding games like tekken, stages are not much of a factor. so why does a moba map matter? When I say variety I mean character design, items, skills, mechanics, all that. People should look at it more like a fighting game each characters having unique move sets and should only complain of saturation when the characters start repeating themselves. Back in the Warcraft 3 days a lot of maps were emulating data and some in my opinion were better because of the characters items mechanics quests and objectives inside the game and mostly skill of the heroes. one of those games is Naruto Wars. Now why should a game like naruto wars be hated on for trying to expand on a good idea, like Age of Wushu? On that topic yes AoW breaks the norm and mixes it up a bit, but it is essentialy every mmo out there just with some changes here and there. Like you said this is what the average person sees.

        • Did you really? on July 20, 2013

          Did you really just ask why a Moba map matter? Because the map is basically the WHOLE game.. Before devs started experimenting with conquest style game modes, the whole MOBA standpoint was of 3 lanes and towers with a “jungle” maze.. In fighting games, the map doesn’t matter because the objective is to beat up the guy next to you and that’s it. Movement is such an important part of MOBA’s that developers didn’t know how to change it and keep the same pro players comfortable..

          Competitive scene stifles innovation.. The same pro players from starcraft will be playing that same game for the rest of their careers.. Still have people hesitant to even look at CS:GO because they went “pro” in old school 1.6.. Hell some places even still throw 1.6 tournaments because most of the pros don’t like change..

          The MOBA map matters because it’s basically the first thing people must learn before playing ANY MOBA..

          • Kloakenstein on July 20, 2013

            Sigh.. We are on the subject of LOL & DOTA clones are we not? Obviously I’m talking about a standard 3 lane map. The map is definitely not “the whole game” so I have no idea what you were talking about. When have you heard balance changes to a map besides it reflecting the champions/heroes I.E. Jungle, Mini Bosses, Bosses. Sure the map has to have a great layout but that’s where the focus stops. That’s done in development time usually. I am talking about the map here not what consist inside of it otherwise I would be talking about the entire game, and you missed that point. Stages matter more in fighting games like Tekken and Smash Brothers GREATLY so don’t misunderstand that.

          • Hardly.. on July 20, 2013

            Stages in fighting games don’t have people constantly whining about which lane they are going to take.. As for Smash Brothers we could argue that it is not actually a fighting game, but more of what a MOBA should actually be, a BATTLE ARENA.. So of course the stages matter in that game because they affect the gameplay just like in LoL and Dota..

            Of course champs matter, but people are so particular in which champs go top, bot and mid that the level plays MORE of a role when even talking about them.. Sure they need to be balanced BUT they are balanced in correlation to their positions ON THE MAP (wahh, my jungler cannot lane transfer as fast as his wahhhh..)

            As I said, the map in MOBA’s changes the whole way the game is played. The items and champ selections are ALL based on the map and positions within..

          • Kloakenstein on July 20, 2013

            …….Okay you obviously don’t know what you are talking about now. You obviously don’t follow or compete in competitive fighting games so why act like you know it? Why would a fighting game stage have people complaining about lanes, you reference is void there and is irrelevant. No we can’t argue that Smash is not a fighting game because it is, all the elements are there. It was at the Largest fighting game tournament in the world Evolution 2013. Fighting game stages matter more than a MOBA map in certain games like Tekken, Injustice, and Smash. A Map in a moba is essentially part of the game that doesn’t change much and has little impact all of what you described has nothing to do with the map but the meta game around the game design itself.

          • Dodging.. on July 22, 2013

            It’s okay.. You are dodging now using silly excuses and insults to trick me into believing I am wrong. It’s okay. I will let you be the last to get in a word of this, and yes, obviously I am not as “professional” as yourself in fighting games or what not. So downplay everything I said in an attempt to remain “relevant” in this conversation. But yes, my bottom line is that, the map makes MOBA’s.. Good day sir.

  16. Sza on July 17, 2013

    Most of this companies trying to copy will fail,I believe LoL was mostly successfull because it was something new and unseen when it came out,but it also was innovative,when those companies(trying to copy the current MOBAs) come up with something innovative and different from what we have today thats when they will be successfull,Just like WoW,Dota,LoL.
    Spend more of your manwork and money on finding new ideas rather than just buying a bunch of things to put ontop of the current games.
    First come first served.

  17. wahhh on July 17, 2013

    no one complains about the 500 wow copies that come out every year!

    • wohhh on July 18, 2013

      Errm, the whole gaming part of internet does…

  18. TheGamer on July 17, 2013

    For me, i’m okay with MOBAs.I’m not a huge fan, but i like a match or two in DotA 2 or LoL.
    If people want to make a MOBA, fine, but please, do something different.Don’t just do a “DotA clone”, try making something different with the genre.For example, AirMech, it picked MOBA mechanics and mixed with more “micromanagement RTS”-style mechanics, and we can agree it is a good game.
    If you make a DotA clone, you will fail do gain some money.LoL players, DotA and DotA 2 players will not leave their games to play a new one, i won’t do that, now considering that, last time i heard, have 32 million players per month.That is basically 60% of the MOBA players.You can’t compete with that.You need to have something new, unless you want to lose some cash, you may say its “less expensive than a MMO”, but a loss is a loss.Also, if a indie dev (like the guy from AirMech) decided to do a DotA clone and fail, that probably means that he is going bankrupt.If you make something new, more players will be interested, more money you will have and you would have done something good for the genre.Everybody wins.

  19. Keylock32 on July 17, 2013

    Something to add
    There are huge playerbase for this genre, but not all of it like it actually (because lack of good MMO with large playerbase nowdays)
    probably just log on once in a while and get stomped.

    why? because moba is very competitive game, something like overpowered items or hero can easily break the whole things.
    and because it’s very competitive not much player like it, 8 from 10 players (2 just quit instantly) will stay to survive while 3 from 8 is quitting after a while because they don’t have much time to understand the game mechanism.

    Teamwork Gameplay is the most important essence in moba game, while new player (who probably think they might do good enough if they farm a certain item) will get stomped with only chain of combo, and after 3-5 failed attempt and they didn’t change their gameplay, I can see which team is going to loose within 10 minutes.

    • I'm not Chewey on July 18, 2013

      And that’s what’s keeping the impatient out, great! Master-race player-base I say. Except for the flaming part, but who doesn’t get wound up when you truly are serious about something 🙂

      It is also nice that more casual mobas are coming so that the more competitive moba stays clean from unserious players and/or trolls so that we, the player-base that remains, have good balanced games and the dev’s can focus on balancing + Content instead of unnecessary skins/grapchis updates and what-not.

      /Chewey

      • Teacup on July 19, 2013

        do you know that moba games tend to attract trolls in? they seem to love it what with all the competitive, angry, stressed out people around. I guess you could call them serious trolls lol.

  20. anip on July 17, 2013

    I don’t play MOBA… the only one I’ve played was from 8+ years ago on Warcraft III…

    Mostly because I am more interested in PvE RPG instead of PvP Boxed
    I dislike PvP and always aim for PvE only servers in any game, lol.

    Plus.. 90% of all MOBA are exactly the same no matter if they’re in 2D, 2.5D, or 3D.
    All of them are always “inside a box” with “pre-created characters”
    There is no actual customization, since all characters start out as lv.1 and level up inside the box (this applies to all MOBA)

    Personally, I am getting tired of all these MOBAs.. needs more MMORPG.

    • asn0304 on July 19, 2013

      well, dota2 offers character cuztomization…there’s a horde of “hero” items you can earn or buy from the store, which are created by normal people like you and me who love the game and believe me there are ALOT of items available. So I would count this as “actual customization”, regarding your other points, I got nothing to say. 😀

  21. Takerukun3 on July 17, 2013

    500?????? mounted. we need a list of 500 mobas please. cover them all.

  22. Keylock32 on July 17, 2013

    It’s a progress (whether bad or good) from old classic grind RPG
    it has everything that players wants (who love the genre) also have almost everything an RPG genre would have (from point & click part)
    it has grind part (from creep/mobs/monster or what ever you want to call it), and you don’t have to spend loads amount of time to achieve it.
    it has PVP (which is main reason people playing MMORPG)
    it has teamworks element
    it has multiple/lot’s of gameplay variety (depend on what hero you pick)

    BUT, what I don’t understand is… every games turns out a copy of a copy.
    just like the old RPG turns out to be.

    in the end, just few famous (or new one with large playerbase) will survive
    because it’s meant to be short to play, but repetitive there isn’t much things for publisher/developer to make a profits, but dota2 probably can be a good example.

    but then again… we will get through another copy of a copy.

    • Pieareround on July 18, 2013

      Each game of a MOBA is sort of like its own micro-RPG with a focus on PVP. I like that interpretation. One thing I have to disagree with you about – PVP is not the main reason everyone plays MMORPGs. Many people do so for high level PVE content.

      • FateRu on July 19, 2013

        yeah, i’d take end-game boss raid over pvp anyday in mmorpgs

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