Damion Schubert, Lead Designer on Star Wars: The Old Republic has a blog.




I didn’t know that until yesterday, when someone on my Twitter feed pointed me toward a recent entry where Schubert analyzes last week’s news regarding the subscription model announcements for The Elder Scrolls Online and WildStar.

The first point to take is the usual “These views are mine (meaning Schubert’s) and not representative of BioWare or Electronic Arts.” With that in mind, he acknowledges WildStar’s noble attempt to at least “try something different,” while being somewhat less kindly to ESO and Final Fantasy XIV, whose director Naoki Yoshida offers the following defense of subscriptions:

With free-to-play, because you’re selling these items, you’ll have months where you sell a bunch of stuff and you make a lot of money in that one month. But it’s all about what happens during that month. Next month, the person who maybe bought $100 worth of items in the last month could purchase nothing at all. You don’t know what you’re going to be getting, and because you don’t know what you’re going to be getting, you can’t plan ahead. You don’t know how much money is coming in. If you can’t plan ahead, then you can’t keep staff, because you don’t know if you’ll have enough money to pay the staff next month.

Schubert responds by agreeing that F2P is difficult to predict. His company is actually very conservative with its guesses and is pleasantly surprised when they routinely exceed those expectations. Commenter Eric “Dalmarus” Campbell adds:

Obviously I can’t give actual numbers, but I can definitely say that while I was at ArenaNet, Guild Wars 2 was also doing just fine. Like… really, really fine. I think the pure subscription model is dead, even if some companies aren’t willing to concede yet.

What Yoshida seems to be saying is, basically, “If we didn’t have a subscription, like those pure F2P games like SWTOR or B2P games like Guild Wars 2, we would have no idea how much money we might bring in in a given month.”

Psst, Yoshida-san… there are these people who work for big, serious companies who create these things called “projections.” Some of them even work for F2P game companies and know the market you’re in. You should look into hiring one or two.

Yoshida’s logic also collapses under the most basic scrutiny. If you have, say, one million players paying your sub, you’ll make $15 million that month. That’s great. So, how do you predict how much you’ll make next month? What if you have more players? Or fewer? How about when an expansion comes out? How many copies will you sell? How many more people will come back?

Really, does this head-in-the-sand mindset work anywhere else than in subscription-based services? This isn’t even a “F2P is better than subs” argument, it’s about basic logic and how poorly the man in charge of a multi-million dollar property understands economics.

Imagine you owned a restaurant. How are you supposed to predict how much money you’ll make in a month? Better charge every customer $15, no matter what they order!

Running a business is hard. I don’t dispute that. Forecasting revenue is one very hard aspect of that. I would like to think Square Enix has people who are capable of doing that kind of hard work. If Yoshida’s words can be taken at face value, though, I guess they don’t.

By Jason Winter

111 Readers Commented

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  1. Shiroux on December 16, 2013

    “Imagine you owned a restaurant. How are you supposed to predict how much money you’ll make in a month? Better charge every customer $15, no matter what they order!”

    Actually, you realize that the only thing they sell is the contract to play their game? Nothing else! And charging for a fixed amount is wrong?

    While I respect your view, do NOT drag Square down this hole too. If you want F2P, then there are plenty already. I’m not going to say that all of them is bad, but I think a lot are. And the few I like and are ACTUALLY unique? Pretty much broken because of your favor F2P model.

    But yeah, from a business standpoint, some F2P games make more profit than the the P2P, but the latter is unarguably the more stable. To each their own.

    It’s like yes, Imagine you owned a restaurant. A buffet restaurant and you set the entry fee of $15. No, no, I’m not going to let you in without paying first. If you want otherwise, there are plenty of other restaurant out there. You can either go to boiling crab and spent hundreds like the rich kid you are, you eat all you can here for 15 bucks. Your choice.

  2. jooegee on September 6, 2013

    if games have a sub, i would say.. make it like 7.50 a month (or something reasonable) or so PLUS implement a cash shop, with items worth buying. companies that maintain the game servers need money to operate, so… say you are paying for a finished, non-multiplayer game: the developers have spent a certain amount of time on it and it is finished. the one-time fee is okay because the developers no longer have to spend any more time to maintain that game. however, in an mmo, you pay for the game (the finished product) plus its services afterwards, including fixing bugs, providing new content is a continual effort.

    • umadbro on September 6, 2013

      if you buy a game you only pay once for the box and its content.
      the bug-fixing is done for free afterwards. and dlc’s can be purchased.separately without paying a subscription fee.(for example look at CoD)

      now in a f2p environment you get 100 players vs 10 in a p2p environment.
      where as the f2p environment with a cash-shop if the stimulus is right about 50% of the players will buy a certain item, which in turn will be used OR sold to the other part that didn’t bought said item.
      this in turn will stimulate the previous buyers to buy again since their item was sold for a fair price, they feel value while still enjoying game play.
      in turn compared to the p2p sector this increases revenue with a whopping 50%.

      in a p2p environment the players buy game-time which leaves a unsatisfying taste of paying for something you already have. this however will work until endgame has been reached or until the player gets bored with it. which is at best 4-6 months period without expansions or major updates.

  3. Sighphi on September 5, 2013

    Whoever wrote this article doesnt understand that the subscription model means. The Sub model are like tv ratings, you need a specific number of people for the show to go on. When the show is not liked you will see a decline that they can react to it. In the sub model people dont just up and leave by the masses and totally screw the profit model. That’s completely unheard of and on top of all of that there payment methods where you buy months in advance so they have already got your money for several months play.

    In the FP2 model you since there is no set ratings you are constantly, basically, working at a loss because you dont know how X thing will be received and Square Enix is a big enough company that they dont feel like working at a lost for something. I mean…. when did The Old Republic turn FP2? That’ right…. when they reach the point of cancellation and they were working at a loss.

  4. tolshortte on September 4, 2013

    I wont even go into the article. Jason took a lighthearted jab at a P2P company while working for a F2P site. who would have guessed that could happen? really, its not a big deal. im sure it was done as a joke and not to be serious or malicious.

    as far as the payment model statements go. both models have merits honestly. and like some have stated, a bad game is a bad game regardless of payment type.

    I mentioned in the MMOBOMB forums that the P2P model would see a comeback of sorts. Mainly due to the F2P market being flooded with cash grabbing companies. And that if the games coming out using it were to do it right and make quality games then it would grow stronger. If not it would wither and die.

    FFXIV:RR – I own it, I buy most mmos. I LIKE IT ALOT. it goes back to some old school foundations while introducing new school ideas and its beautiful to look at. if the rest of the P2P games coming out are close to equal then P2P gamers have something to be happy about.

    Wildstar – From what I can tell from what ive read it will be designed for the more dedicated gamer. most of that group are willing to pay for their game and will do so if it turns out well. the ability to buy CREDD only strengthens its stance by allowing F2P gamers access if willing to put in the time and effort or are intelligent with their ingame resources.

    TESO – I personally don’t have high hopes for this game. I have said it from its inception that I cant see the ES world being MMO viable. But hopefully Im wrong and they deliver a great product for their fans. If they do it will be another victory for the P2P market.

    as far as the F2P supporters go, expect more and demand more from your game developers. The door was almost shut on P2P games after the SWTOR debacle but this part of the genre has failed in so many way in so many games that the door is again opening. You really want your F2P style to survive? Then send emails to the devs of your fav games, have your friends and their friends do the same. Tell them what you want, what you DEMAND from their product otherwise this stigma attached to F2P games is here to stay.

  5. MMOBOMBSUCKS on September 3, 2013

    to MMO bomb form the 10k people who read the post one forms F u and your WEB site and we all think this article is a fishing tack tick

  6. LOL on September 3, 2013

    I see u already in SE forms hope u get Perma Banned all 3 of u Magicdoosh

  7. MMObombwtf on September 3, 2013

    DO SE a solid DO not play FF ARR or post it on the WEB ill do u assholes a solid and post this in the forms

  8. MMObombWTF on September 3, 2013

    THIS is a F2p WEBSIGHT do SE a FAVOR and STFU

  9. NobleNerd on August 30, 2013

    I for one agree with SE approach to stay p2p. FFXI has been p2p and has survived and prospered for about 11 years now. Just because the western world wants to have hand-outs, does not mean p2p won’t work on a global scale.

    I dislike having a popup window interfere with my game play!!!!
    I have no problem paying SE monthly sub. to keep that out of my game.

  10. Jakoul on August 30, 2013

    When it comes down to it the people who support f2p over p2p are people that simply don’t want to spend money. While it’s true often players of those games do spend money, it’s nowhere near the amount that even a bad p2p game makes in its first year or release.

    That being said, I believe all p2p games should have some sort of trial so we know what we are getting ourselves into. I would probably have spent a lot more money over the years on p2p MMOs if I was able to try them beforehand, and I think that goes for a lot of people. Especially considering ‘AAA title’ MMOs are barely worth $10 a month, not even close to $15 a month nor buying it in the first place.

    Hopefully publishers will realize this and give us the option to try their subscription games instead of us having to resort to ignoring it until it is dead.

    • sadmanex on August 30, 2013

      with that come rmt that will destroy ingame economy
      thanks SE for not make any trial
      if you really want,there was cbt before to test

    • Kawaiido on September 6, 2013

      CORRECTION. The only reason I don’t want to do Pay to Play is because NOT JUST BECAUSE OF THE SUBSCRIPTION but BECAUSE I HAVE TO PAY FOR SOFTWARE TOO.

      I think its bullshit that I need to pay the equivalent of four months of game time to by an expansion pack and I only get ONE MONTH OF GAME TIME WITH IT. If you can point me to a sub game where I don’t have to pay for software ever (and don’t say Wakfu, that game is trash, regretted subbing to it) and the grind is at the very least reasonable, i’ll gladly try it, and if I like it perhaps sub to it.

      • playinsand on September 6, 2013

        you repeated you post on someone elses response. QQ to your facebook.

  11. Anon on August 29, 2013

    F2P is a diseased model tbh.

    It’s all about getting you hooked and then torturing your experience just enough to make you want to pay to have as much fun as possible.

    I prefer P2P. I’d rather spend $12-15 a month to receive the whole game, rather than need to spend hundreds to get the full F2P game.

    $12-15 is a pittance. It’s an hour and a half at minimum wage, per month, to pay.

    • dirtyzerg on August 29, 2013

      who said you had to pay 100$s of dollars to get the full game ?

      Those type of MMORPGS where cash shop users are king is trash..there are plenty of games that do fine selling pure cosmetic items such as HoN/PoE/Dota2..the difference here is that the F2P games that die off probably sucked anyway..DCUO almost died off because of how bad the game was..no 1 wanted to pay a monthly fee for that..

      There are F2P games you don’t have to spend a dime in..the problem these days is people want it now and will pay 100$ to get an advantage..and that is why you have atrocious games with bad P2W models..and besides…if you pay 15$ a month you still pay 180$ a year..which is probably around the same a normal person would spend in a cash shop within 12 months..

  12. Shapoopi on August 29, 2013

    F2P only works if they game is good in the first place. Anyone can make a F2P game and it either can be great, or a complete craptastic one. I believe if the game is worth a sub it will be that way. If not, there are millions of others to play.

  13. allacore69 on August 28, 2013

    If a game goes free to play, you get bots and gold farmers and every troll coming out of the wood work. A free to play game is just a finiky when it comes to revenue. In a P2P at least you get the 15$ a month guaranteed. What if a free to play game sells nothing for months because players come in and say, “We dont have to pay anything, it’s free!”. Oh no, now the company goes under because nobody pulled in any revenue. Have anybody here played a F2P game? They are pay to win and they force you to pay for shit that you really need, just to be on par with everybody else. B2P are weird too. I played the GW2 trial last weekend and every server I joined was dead. People in chat begged me to buy the game when I asked where is everybody.

    BTW I think MMOBOMB is jealous about not getting to try and review this game because it is not free to play.

    p.s. Why would you put words into somebodys mouth that they did not say or make assumptions : What Yoshida seems to be saying is, basically, “If we didn’t have a subscription, like those pure F2P games like SWTOR or B2P games like Guild Wars 2, we would have no idea how much money we might bring in in a given month.”

    And then insult them about their own game and financial services :
    Psst, Yoshida-san… there are these people who work for big, serious companies who create these things called “projections.” Some of them even work for F2P game companies and know the market you’re in. You should look into hiring one or two.

    WTF is this : Imagine you owned a restaurant. How are you supposed to predict how much money you’ll make in a month? Better charge every customer $15, no matter what they order!

    uuummmm heres a clue, Golden Corral makes you pay 11$ each visit, but you get the all you can eat buffet.

    God you guys are stupid.

    Also, why target just Final Fantasy?
    Why not ESO and WildStar?

    • Shapoopi on August 29, 2013

      Not always true with only F2P have bots and spammers. Look at Aion when it first launced. Horrible spammers and bots. To this day, even though it is F2P now, it still has them. It all depends on the system and protection companies want to put into their game to make it better for everyone.

      • Eviil on August 31, 2013

        It is getting more difficult and difficult to recognize bots who farm 24/7 without sleep because the script themselves are getting more complex everyday. You also have to consider that the game developer themselves are in it to make more cash, and yes companies has done so and yet act so goodie-goodie.

        dude, you even have scripts that take over the mouse and creates characters for ya…. with some gold sellers, that’s how you see the player name adb1 adb2 adb3 etc.

  14. Neocron on August 28, 2013

    If FF14 went FTP id quit playing it like SWTOR………PTP is a barrier for trolls and un-committed nubs
    SWTOR went further down hill going from PTP to FTP

    Before MMOs id pay 45$ + at a video store renting games….now i pay 15- and play all month…..If the game is worth PTP then people will pay…i have

    Id rather pay 15$ and have quality content rather then having an a AD pop up telling me if i buy something with RL money id have an edge……that everyone else and there mom payed for as well

    NO THANK YOU!!!

    FFXIV Keep on, Keeping on!

  15. no name required on August 28, 2013

    wow, they weren’t kidding when they said that the quality of writing in MMOBOMB took a huge plunge since the last time I’ve been here (which was 2012).

    It seems that whoever wrote this article just pasted examples here and there without even knowing their financial schematics and took a piss directly at Yoshida and Co. for not making FFXIV ARR F2P

    “This isn’t even a “F2P is better than subs” argument”

    oh ? but the way things are written in this article, it sure is exactly that.

  16. Quinten on August 28, 2013

    F2P is the future, i mean more and more games are being made free and turning free, i personally think games like Secret World or GW2 had the right idea do a one time payment to buy it, and then have your in game market, that in my opinion is the best option, but sub is dying, people i think are finally getting tired of tossing money at a video game every single month, just to not play it one month, or to only play a couple hours that one month, or w.e lives are getting to busy and its not worth it, also there are f2p games that have CRAZY Player bases, and some like LOL that even passed WOW (last year i believe) so yea, and look at games like Runescape, its still alive, still has a large player base, and still earning money, making updates, and recently made Runescape 3! so yea i think its time to drop subs for good.

  17. Tagui on August 28, 2013

    “What Yoshida seems to be saying is, basically, “If we didn’t have a subscription, like those pure F2P games like SWTOR or B2P games like Guild Wars 2, we would have no idea how much money we might bring in in a given month.”

    seriously ? SWTOR is a pure F2P ? Did you even try to play it until the end ( lv max and trying to up your gear to the top ? ), SWTOR ends up with a big message in your mind : subscribe or give up. Stop jumping so quickly to conclusion….

    And for your information sir, FF XI is still running with SUBSCRIPTION over many years.

    Your review is so cliché, talking about F2P game on a dedicated F2P review website 🙂
    Stop talking so badly it’s your opinion, and i guess a lot a guys follow you, but there are gamers that are ” smarter ” and are ready to spend 12$ a month unlike hardcore F2P gamers who can throw more than 100$ each month for only one reason : Feel the pleasure to destroy everything and be above all.

  18. Linus Forsberg on August 28, 2013

    To be honest here. I’m fine giving up my money to a sub based game but only if they can provide me with more content and more fun stuff to do in this game. Most games that have sub based survives and if you put a pay to win model into an mmo it isn’t great we all know that? To be a successfull f2p game you gotta be top noch take league for example. A simplified dota game in the begining with loads of deepth and fun for the most part so it appeals to a large audience and secoundly it dosn’t have pay 2 win it has “skins” and some ppl buy a little boost now and then but the main reason is becouse its a successfull game and they keep expanding becouse of large almount of players but for Squares reason if they had lets say their new title Finalfantasy XIV free to play they wouldn’t make much money of having free to play and that equals no more content and therefore worse then wow or not much better then any other free mmo. And if they made it free to play how would they get money? cash shop? THATS what makes free to play mmos SHIT. Extremly sry for my bad english if you read this far and please leave a comment on this let me hear your thoughts about free to play 🙂

  19. wtf on August 28, 2013

    Hahahahha you guyz get over it its not like the end of the world if it p2p or f2p its all the say ppl have there own idea how to survive in gaming buesnes u even notice that there making good games coming out lately if its going 2be p2p or f2p IDC ppl well spend money either way if they want to play it.. so STFU lolother ppl just trolling on every comment to keep it interesting n keep the conversation going n u guyz are gettting n to it… funny how kids act this days Trololololol

    • zakena on August 28, 2013

      funny how u spell your english and claim how kids act….

  20. waltjr on August 28, 2013

    The only thing I’ve taken from this is that most companies that go f2p value the dollar over quality gaming. F2p games have obliterated the mmo genre for many of us that are tired of the nickle and dime approach.

    They can justify it all they want but in reality they are digging a hole for the mmorpg genre. If you think otherwise then you’re just delusional and part of the deconstruction of mmos.

  21. LogicalFallacyHunter on August 28, 2013

    The amount of utter nonsense people are spouting here is ridiculous.

    Does F2P 100% mean that the game will be bad? No.
    Does P2P 100% mean that the game will be good? No.

    So yes, there do exist some F2P games which are good, and yes there are some P2P games which suck. The morons will argue until the cows come home about all the wrong factors, throwing in example game after example game to try to back up their fallacious crap. Simple fact is this, if a game *>IS BADIS A BAD<* game. The converse is also true, if it is a good game, what you pay (or don't pay) won't stop it being a good game.

    With this in mind, I still do not favour the F2P model and would much prefer a subscription based game.

    Why? A few simple reasons, which mainly centre around the community, after all MMOs are social gaming:

    The community – Typically speaking (not across the board) the community on F2P is more negative. People don't fear being banned, as they don't lose anything in terms of costs, and it's free to start up. Added to this the anonymity of the internet and pretty much anyone can come in and troll people who are trying to enjoy it, and simply leave when bored.

    Longevity – With no costs to play, you may be incentivised to pick it up and play, as it's free and you lose nothing by giving it a go. However, many people will simply try it and drop it quite soon. The lack of paying for it, means you are not incentivised to have some patience and stick with it (after all, you have paid for a month of play, why not use it etc.). This results in a much higher turnover of people, which doesn't add to the stability and longevity of the community.

    Maturity: Young teenagers who don't need their parents credit cards, can pick up and put down F2Ps at will. Often this results in a very immature gamer base, where I personally prefer a more mature base. Again, this does not mean all teenage gamers are immature, or that all adults are mature. Still, there are more immature teens than there are immature adults, and F2P is often more densely populated by teens.

    Net Costs: F2P is free to play, well duhhh… P2P is Pay to play, again obvious. However, the main difference is that P2P is capped at whatever the sub per month fees are – say you pay £10 pcm, that is a cap of £120 per annum. F2P games make their money by incentivising you to pay for premium products, armour/weapons/mounts/costume/potions/boosts etc etc etc. Yet their costs are not capped. It is quite easy, to spend £20/30/50 pcm and not realise it. What happens in many cases is P2P is net capped at £120 pa, but F2P can stealthily squeeze you for much more than this and you don't realise until long after the fact.

    Overall, if you like a game you should support it, regardless of it's economic model. In this instance FFXIV is P2P, you should try it out, and if you enjoy it support it. The P2P model works, and it works well if the game is good enough so that people want to stick with it. FFXI still has a massive gaming base, and is bring in the money for SE. WOW still has a massive fan base, and so on. Will FFXIV survive as a P2P? I don't know, nobody does, but I hope it will (and my prediction is that it will).

    The amateur writer of this article clearly has no idea of how statistics and economics work, he also doesn't realise that with such a massive fan base of the FF series, it is actually very easy to predict month to month incomes, given the subscription bonuses and multi-month sub fees – it is highly unlikely that 100% of your customer base will quit all in one month. I am very sure that a company as large as SE has many (far more intelligent people than the writer of this article) who work for them, and know how to forecast and predict things like this using statistical modelling and forecasting.

    The simple fact is, that if you can't afford to subscribe, then you don't get to play it – a very tough love stance, but the realistic one. Furthermore, if you don't like P2P model, then again you don't have to play it. Quite simple really!

  22. Bahahahaha on August 28, 2013

    It’s always a f*** laugh when someone with absolutely no qualifications or training/education makes a bold statement about another person’s understanding of a subject matter because they disagree with it. I mean, for f**’s sake, your source material is a bunch of game developers. You couldn’t even actually source a single economist talking about this. Then you’ve got the brass to claim that a person you’ve never met doesn’t understand economics/hired people who don’t understand economics because his opinion doesn’t link up with other game developers, and here’s the fun part, that have an interest in F2P being more successful. You know, because they work on those games.

    I’m really stunned. Is this what passes for research and journalism in the gaming world? You should feel awful about writing this, and whoever edits for this site should feel awful about letting you put it up. It is completely lacking in substance and serves as nothing but a soapbox for the way you feel about the issue. Thanks for wasting my time. Feel free to argue back, but I really have no interest in engaging you or anyone else that thinks this article isn’t pure sh*t.

  23. Halo Falling on August 28, 2013

    I think this article gave me cancer. It is very clear that you are not a business major. It is far easier to project future revenue with a subscription based model and I’m not sure how you can’t understand that. I mean, that doesn’t even require a college credit course to comprehend. That’s something you can learn in high school economics.

    The games that went F2P are games that could not stand on their own with a subscription model because, frankly, they weren’t good enough for a subscription. That’s the cold, hard truth of things. I have no doubt that subscriptions will be making a comeback as companies begin to put more effort and heart behind their games. If anyone has a problem with shelling out a meager $0.50 a day for these games, I suggest you stop relying on your parents’ income to fund your gaming habits.

  24. Holy Belle on August 28, 2013

    So basically what you are saying in this article is the fact that because you cant afford 15 a month on a e-journalist the game should be f2p, better idea get a job that pays enough. I mean Im writing this from work and make more than enough to keep my WoW, FFXIV, FFXI, DDO, AoC, LOTRO and DCUO subs all active at one time. Looking forward to adding ESO and Wildstar to that list as well.

  25. Neosapience on August 28, 2013

    How about this…

    Make an MMO that I want to play and I’ll give you some money! These petty attempts to swindle your customers are insulting and ultimately damaging to your company and IP. ‘Pay to Win’ needs to die in a fire, along with anyone that thinks such a model is beneficial to their customers. The WildStar devs are on the right track and I feel like they’ll be the recipients of my hard earned cash this year.

  26. Eviil on August 28, 2013

    I’m sorry but I cannot accept this article because you have to account for the overhaul itself for FFXIV. His theory was probably affect by the re-development of FFXIV. He is looking at longevity rather than some quick cash as fast as possible, and as usually, when time passes the game will be absolutely addictive as quality content is placed in. Although other companies has been successful, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t follow the same route, it is a gamble after all. He also states, he would rather close FFXIV rather than converting it into F2P, he has confidence in his work.

  27. BruiserCruiser on August 28, 2013

    Ummm, this article is a load of shit… If SE wants to be pay to play its their f*** right to because its their game! Im personally glad its not F2P and i hope it never will be. F*** pay to win and micro transactions. There is nothing wrong with a subscription fee if the game is good and i assure everyone here this is a gem of an MMO.

  28. Neal on August 28, 2013

    I’ve read the entire interview that you snipped that quote from, and you took it wildly out of context from the answer Yoshida gave. On top of that, you paint it as though he doesn’t understand economics in your attempt to be snarky.

  29. devilr on August 28, 2013

    I have a exemple of bad company thinking only about money,Gpotato,my father play 3/4 years a this games (Rappelé),i think he pay 500/1000 € for this game and when he as been hack (he never told info about is account,never buy illégal money),he contact the support and the support really dont care, only cause the game are f2p,if the game was b2p the problèmes could have be fixed in 24 h,thats why b2p are better than f2p ,the support of f2p dont care about how money or time you spend in his game,the look only money they win .

    • devilr on August 28, 2013

      I mean Rappelz ,the gpotato think only about money, dont care about his custommers.

      • devilr on August 28, 2013

        And i stop play SWTOR cause the launcher are bugged ,if they think about her player,the fixe herself her bugged launcher.

    • HugeDick on August 29, 2013

      Rappelez???? Was your father on drugs or something??? 500/1000 Euros for Rappelez what is wrong with your father??? This game isnt worth a single cent it is so bad and boring one of the worst games i ever have seen in my whole life.
      I hope your father learnd his lesson never spend money on bullshit games. Shit for for 500/1000 Euros he better would get a hooker or two or three……

  30. Bic Boi on August 28, 2013

    “Damion Schubert, Lead Designer on Star Wars: The Old Republic has a blog.”
    Damion Schubert, Lead Designer on Star Wars: The Old Republic..”
    “..Star wars : The Old Republic”.

    Yeah I’m gonna have to stop you right there..because I could go on forever on how frucked up their idea of F2P is, especially with their tactics concerning the cartel market. As it is controlled now by EA, at one point we were told (and I’ll paraphrase here) that if people didn’t buy the Cathar species that they’d not do any other species releases. Essentially they like to hold any new content hostage in a bid to force people to buy. That’s backwards, even for a capitalist business.

    So as far as I’m concerned Damion and anyone else working on SWTOR are completely irrelevant in the discussion of F2P and how it should be done. So long as they’re under EA’s thumb you know it’s all PR talk.

    Now on the topic of F2P, personally I despise it. Why? Because it never fails that they reduce the quality of life in a game in a way that makes it irritating and difficult–and thus less fun. You can say you enjoy it but deep down there isn’t a single one of you F2P players that doesn’t wish you didn’t have these restrictions imposed. Those that won’t buy stuff on an F2P game choose to suffer. Those that do pay quickly find out that the game itself is problematic because it was designed to eat your wallet.

    You guys will complain about a $15 per month (that’s $0.50 a day) subscription fee but have you ever watched how much you’ll spend going out to the cinema for an evening? Going to a restaurant? Mini-putt? Bowling? I guarantee you will spend more than $15 a month for what equates to a few hours tops of entertainment. But you’ll refuse to pay $15 for what amounts to as many hours of entertainment as you can squeeze into a month?

    You guys ought to step back and examine the amount of cash you spend every day. Hell I bet some of you people out there spend more than $10 a day just in coffee and breakfast on the way to work!

    F2P offers exactly ONE aspect; no commitment. That’s all well and good. But how committed are you to a game that reduces the quality of life purposely in a bid to get access to your wallet?
    I don’t know about you but I’d prefer to pay $15 and not have worries than pay $0 but then want so desperately to level faster or have a mount that will cost you $10 or more. Honestly I don’t understand the F2P mindset.

    Is it because you guys feel that your money isn’t worth it if you have to resub monthly? How many hours are you going to get out of it? Is 80 hours a month not worth the $15? Most retail console games nowadays only last 20 hours, sometimes less and are worth four to five times the cost of a monthly mmo subscription! Why do people then buy those but balk at the cost of a subscription? If a game holds no value for you unless it has no upfront price tag that’s a problem, people!

    Hopefully square will stick with Pay-to-play! There is no reason to harm the quality of their product and the quality of life in their game in a bid to nickle-and-dime.

  31. Hacchan on August 28, 2013

    A big thing people forget is that SE isn’t looking for people who casually or randomly play MMO.
    since FFXI (which still running with still lot of people on their server), SE aim toward loyal player base that will play not only for 3 month but for very long period.

    Most player are original from FFXIV or FFXI which mean person that are used to the style of the game being new and oldish by the same way. They will play and keep playing the game till they stop releasing extension and that can be long !
    Look at FFXI up to.. last year if im right? they released the latest extension of it !
    Quite impressive for such an old game to still have lot and lot of people and not only japanese. The game got lot of EU and NA. And the content is quite serious and very long to finish, myself only managed to get 2 extension done before and it took me long time of work and training.

    Yes F2P look like to be the future of mmo lately but when i see lot of company such as Sony, using this as pretext to turn an interesting game into p2w or highly restrictive, there’ll be problem..
    F2P was well made by few company such as Perfect World, who’s i think, quite leading the f2p market, followed now by GameForge who did an excellent job with Tera, even if there’s problem can’t argue with the fact they give a full game with no limit.

    I quite prefer pay for FFXIV or repay for FFXI, a game i know will develop for a long time with more and more stuff to do than playing a F2P that will either highly limit my experience of the game or promote pay 2 win.

  32. GamerJesus on August 28, 2013

    I have no problem with p2p games charging a flat $15 a month and giving you access to all the areas of the game. As some of you know most f2p games have cash shops and,although not all are p2w,most people are required to pump in $25-$100 a month. Now this seems illogical in my eyes as you could easily pay for a subscription and the only thing separating you from other players is the amount of time and knowledge that you have. Competitive players TEND to migrate towards p2p because it is all fair game. Your six digit income won’t have any adverse effects in pvp or pve and the only thing it might buy you is gold from gold sellers. Even with that gold the items you can purchase can be easily obtained by getting together with a group and doing raids and dungeons when needed. Not to mention the fact that you will get caught.It is just a matter of time. So again it is illogical to purchase gold. That is not to say that f2p is viable but the cash shop should be balanced to the point that if I were to put in time and effort it would not take me months to be on par with a person who swiped their credit card…and that is rarely done.

  33. zakena on August 28, 2013

    its the negative mind set and i know everything attitude that dosent allow people to think out of the box. dont judge people their ways of thinking just because its different from whats in the current market.
    this is the reason why i say think once if its a matter of a general market think twice when pointing at someone else s market.
    well you have to give everyone a chance you cant just judge em like this.
    Not in favor of this article at all ….

  34. Dzonatan on August 28, 2013

    I see a lot of piss on a japanese man with a japanese buisness perspective because his perspective is different from a western perspective.

    I think the author of this article should learn how does the MMO market look on the other side to know whether his subscription belief is biased or simply logical conclusion from where he comes? Who knows, maybe in Japan P2P subscription model works much better than it does here in the west. Is there any Japanese-localized MMO savvy player here who would care to elaborate on my thoughts?

  35. lolreally on August 28, 2013

    ff14 shittest combat system worse then ro2

    anyone who thinks it is fun should shoot them self.

    • Golgo28 on August 30, 2013

      I was wondering when the FF hating trolls would get here.For a second I thought only the p2p trolls would stop buy.I think ff14 has a great conbat system a nice mix of tab/target and action combat styles.But honestly I don’t believe you even played ff14.But most of the people that are on here posting p2p is bad me like f2p only are little kids that don’t even try a game efore hating it.And even some of the peple saying f2p sucks are the same.Before you start saying what is or isn’t good try it first.I’ve played every mmo except merridian.And truth is all pay models whether f2p,b2p or p2p are valid.It’s more of a question of is a game worth it’s payment model and which will give the dev/publisher the best profit.Swtor could have survied p2p it didn’t have wow numbers but enough to pay off the production cost and make a profit.But in true EA fashion bioware/EA saw they could make more money by nickle and diming it’s players.Most people that enjoy SWtor are subscribers cause being f2p in that game will end costing you more in the long run.Wow being in decline is because Blizzard in an atempt to make more profit decided to stop listening to it’as hardcore players that were paying and making the game alot of money.And instead started listening to the casuals and kids.Who tend to stop playing a game after a few months.

      So Blizzard goes and makes changes to the game which drove it’s hardcore population away.With only the biggest fanboys sticking around because they live in denial of the game being wrecked.And those casuals and kids that the changes were made for are slowly leaving cause it’s what they do.SE isn’t moving to f2p because it’s able to be profitable on it’s FF mmos.Schubert should learn to shut up.And Jason don’t listen to anyone from Bioware they couldn’t find their way out of wet paper bag.

  36. -=WolverinE=- on August 28, 2013

    Japanese think a lot differently than western countries and in particular, they plan way ahead instead of a short term (look at PS3 and XBOX360 for example). If the game is good people will pay monthly subscriptions for it. What Yoshida is saying is that if they have a steady income, they can plan patches and expansions and follow a specific timeline/schedule. If that means a better game, than that’s how it should be.

  37. KilikGaia on August 27, 2013

    Buy to play is awesome too. If they wanted money that bad box sales plus a reasonable cash like The Secret World’s where they only sell Vanity and convince items with a optional Sub. Is it that hard to do something like that.

  38. coldasice on August 27, 2013

    Square Enix actually respects its consumers. And the players nowadays are being increasingly cheated by Free2Play market. People do not stop to think about the economy. Pay2play in a game, you spend $ 180 per year (with the regular price of 15 dolare monthly) and you have all the rights and access to the game than any other player. Now, in Free2Play game you only get stronger if you purchase items, I know people who already spent 2000 $ 3000 amounts on a character to become strong, supreme, as a God, it is unfair to those who do not want to spend $ 2000 in a game … and worse … these people who spent all that money, stopped playing after one year or less because they have become so strong that the game was boring … then, explain to me, how “Free2Play” can be better than “pay2play”? I’d rather pay $ 180 a year in a game that I’ll be strong from my dedication and have the same challenge as all other players, than paying a fortune in a game that anyone who does not pay is not strong and where the company cares about both players (cash players and “free” players), that six months later she is releasing another game, thus stopping to pay attention and support the old game and its players…

    • justsaying on August 27, 2013

      My point exactly. Its lit candles strategy. They want that very bright candle to play more often than the dim one. However it seems to ignore the fact that the dim candle will play the game the longest and possibly spend MORE over time than the bright candle who does burst purchases.

      Some games, like GW2 has taken a novel approach of take that burst purchase of the game itself, then smaller dim purchases from the cash shop for items that help slowly and longer. I think the cheapest xp item lasts a DAY, which is so different than the 30 minute xp boosts i’ve seen elsewhere.

      What people also miss is the service aspect of your response. You get maybe 2 days response from a general F2P game, unless its emergency or game breaking. To the mostly 1 day if not 12 hour response service of P2P and B2P. Because you are paying for this service, this company that you trust to enjoy their product, they will try their best to satisfy you within reason.

    • Dkuang on August 27, 2013

      I must admit most F2P mmo’s are just a big cash shop milking the derp consumer (or the ones with loads of cash) with no real content and what content they have they want you pay to get it. Some Sub games that went F2P like SWTOR have horrible pay/cash shop systems with basically don’t even make the game F2P. Whats fair? Giving everyone equal playing fields, regardless of whether or not its a subscription based game, buy to play, or free to play.

      Examples of games that have a good system that isn’t entirely subscription based would be Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile. I honestly feel those two mentioned games have a nice system that doesn’t , like you say, have a cash system that makes “rich” players GOD MODE. Everything is just cosmetic or doesn’t affect game play, all looks.

      If the logic of Subscription based games equated to better projection of income, development of content, respectful to consumers, expansions, etc…then why have so many subscription based games fail? Because honestly the MMO market doesn’t support that anymore, this isn’t 2004 when WoW, launched. When the MMO gaming market was mostly sub based and not many competitors or choices of games. Heck, now you have browser, tablets, smart phones, pc’s, consoles doing it up with mmo’s/online gaming. There’s literally a million FREE choices to compete for consumers money and play time. Not many will dish out 60$ and an additional 15$ every month for a game these days, because well..if they did, all those subscription based games that have been released in the past 8-9 years, wouldn’t have all tanked.

      • Atonal on August 27, 2013

        I can’t agree with what you’re saying. P2P may not be the way of the future, but it CAN be the best solution for certain games. You’re also not including WHY these sub-based games failed. Mismanagement, greed, and lack of innovation are a few primary examples of these games failing.

        For example, Tera opened a cash shop within two to three months of releasing the game. Most people would feel screwed over when something like that happens. Paid $60, and a sub fee, and then the company releases a cash shop on top of that in the short, few months it’s been released? Yeah, a greedy formula that made sure the game wouldn’t do well right from the beginning. Also, SWTOR failed because of so many reasons. They copy/pasted without adding anything new to the gameplay, they listened too much to what “elitists” stated, the development cost too much, they relied too much on the SW name, etc. Yeah, there were a lot of problems with the way that game was being created/managed.

        The thing is, FFXIV NEEDS to be a P2P right now. It’s a game that’s been redeveloped and relaunched. The costs for it are MASSIVE at this point. If managed correctly, P2P will bring in a stable income to try and offset their losses on the game. FFXIV has enough tweaks to make it more than just a simple copy/paste and adds a bit more to the gameplay aspect. It has enough to be capable of surviving as a P2P.

        Also, oooooooffff cooouuurrsseee GW2 is doing fine! It’s a B2P with a cash shop! People “think” they’re getting a good deal, but the majority are still spending $15 or more per month on the cosmetics/items! It’s called selling on impulse, and the jones effect! If a player has a cool outfit, others will want that outfit too, etc!

        Anyway, this article is just plain bias for a F2P FFXIV and nothing more. The writer has said otherwise, but it’s clear like night and day this guy is biased.

    • Kawaiido on September 6, 2013

      Tell you what. Find me a subscription game where I do NOT have to pay for Software as well, no monster amounts of grind and i’ll go check it out.

      • playinsand on September 6, 2013

        Tell you what, find me a game that doesn’t need money to play at all. This includes having to buy or upgrade a computer for the entire life of the game, needing the internet to play it because that costs money too (leaching the internet goes for only so long), and will completely engross me for hours on end. Do all this AND actually costs nothing. I’m sure my dream game is just as plausible as yours.

  39. Lithkul on August 27, 2013

    One of the best models I have seen ever for this arguement is Wizard 101, if you choose to you can be a sub, have the arena fully open, not pay to own each zone you go to. However, if you choose to you can buy each individual zone, play on your own time, they even have sales for money only users. The fan base for Wizard 101 is quite big, big enough to make a second game. I think the best way is to allow for players to choose which way they go. For the developer to be intrested in pleasing the base audience with new content and new purchasables. For Wizard 101 you can play for a few hours as a demo before you have to put down any money at all. I understand that developers need money, to keep developing the games I like, but I should not be forced to buy a game several times over.

    • justsaying on August 27, 2013

      I know it looks like i’m going up and down the comments and making fights. i’m not, but you bring up a good point.

      That buying model is interesting because LOTRO does it too. That mentality that you have those who pay for everything up front and go at their leasure, or as you get to the zone you need to buy you only buy that one. Also magic and vanity items. It does take into account adults who play with their kids and control their buying, while also taking into account just kids playing who almost never can spend money on a game.

      It takes a LOT of money backing such a feat, i would love to know how much money W101 and P101 had before they launched full gear. In relevance of say more modest games that aren’t Allods (which boasted over 1 mil in development).

      Interesting response to post. I hope you respond.

  40. Zombie on August 27, 2013

    Should ANYONE really take advise, or even bother reading stuff, from a person who’s game (SWTOR) charges money for more than two action bars…

    SWTOR is the absolute WORST EXAMPLE of a Free to Play model.

    Get me the Developer of Rift now that its Free to Play. I see his input on the F2P market being a LOT more viable than the guy who helped think up “More than 2 action bars should cost them money”

    • Consti2tion on August 27, 2013

      Don’t forget SWTOR was also Pay2Play and was FORCED to switch to the F2P model. So who gives a F**** what the Lead Developer has to say.

      On that note, stop Reporting Gossip. Kthnxbye

    • Jason Winter on August 28, 2013

      SWTOR apparently is apparently exceeding financial expectations every month.

      Trion lays off a bunch of people every month.

      I much prefer Rift’s F2P model over SWTOR’s, too, but I’m apparently in the minority.

      • gqninja on September 2, 2013

        I stand behind that, unfortunately Rift has a HUGE server lag problem.

  41. wangchun on August 27, 2013

    Only WOW and Eve can get away with a sub now. Eve appeals to a niche group and WOW is slowly dying.
    F2P, buy to play like gw2 and in game stores are the future of MMO.

    • Jambock on August 28, 2013

      Eve is growing and growing, i think that F2P isn’t the future, it’s the present. But some rare games can be able to survive with P2P model, both models work well, but the P2P model is harder to achieve success these days… And not all F2P are shit, and a lot of people thinks that WoW is shit! xD Sorry WoW fans but your game is dying and it really was one of the better games, WAS… But the fact is, WoW still with subs because of fanboys, with EvE is the same but it still can attract new players every month; all the rest (FF, TES online, Wildstar, ETC) i doubt that they will last long with the sub model, i give 2 years to each.

      • woot on September 1, 2013

        that’s hilarious since ff X1 has been going 7+ years as a sub and still is putting out new content get ur crap straight and for the record wow is a horrid game i tried it got to lvl 55 and it was just lame graphics outdated as hell its gonna die soon and good riddens to it

  42. TheTrue on August 27, 2013

    to much words and at the end whats the “new”?

  43. cw on August 27, 2013

    Terrible article. Just look at Neverwinter. They charge you an arm and a leg just to do basic stuff. This is a pathetic article.

    • Annipotem on August 27, 2013

      You missed the point of the article.

    • lol on August 27, 2013

      right, look at one example and judge about whole phenomenon
      brilliant logical skills !

  44. Gunblazer42 on August 27, 2013

    I would have expected the tone of this article to come from Kotaku. I thought MMOBomb was better than this, but I guess not.

    In any case, it’s likely a decision from the Squeenix heads, and not Yoshida, to ultimately not allow FF14 to be F2P. FF11 still makes a hell of a lot of money, so I hear, so I doubt Squeenix is even considering F2P as a model.

  45. Stemar on August 27, 2013

    This kind of discusion will last forever. In my humble opnion, the company should take a payment model that fits better the game market the game will affect, afterall, some games are more for casual player and other ones are more for hardcore players. By the way, there are ways to fit both player styles, and still make mountains of money.

    • zsharp on August 27, 2013

      That’s the only reason this article was written… because, it’s an easy report with an expected outcome from the community of MMO gamers. The write-up is a joke really. It’s not like Yoshida is the only one these guys can meaningfully drive news on. Cry about Elder Scrolls and Wildstar some.

      • Lollipops on August 27, 2013

        If you are asking them to call out some other devs, they did speak about Elder Scrolls and WIldstar in another article.

  46. zsharp on August 27, 2013

    F2P doesn’t work for everything… namely games that are truly worth a shit. Also, keep dreaming, Yoshida will close it down before it goes F2P. This game is solid, and it doesn’t need the grubby hands of gamers that believe they are entitled to everything, ruining it for those willing to pay for a high quality game. >> bring your rage and tears… my body is ready.

    • Ein on August 27, 2013

      That’s gross.

    • Essedess on August 27, 2013

      “It’s a trap”

      • zsharp on August 27, 2013

        ……………………………………./wait

    • 70calories on August 27, 2013

      that’s nice and all but no game is worth buying over again each mouth for a discounted price if not F2P then B2P is how it should go

      • zsharp on August 27, 2013

        You obviously no nothing at all. If you already purchased the original version, you got the new version for FREE… nice go at though skipper. IF you are saying that $15 a month isn’t worth it for dedicated support, and a high quality game, you shouldn’t own a computer that can play f*** games bro! You probably need to look at your priorities if you can’t afford that.

        • gqninja on September 2, 2013

          That’s a pretty weak argument. I get bored playing any game for long periods of time. I’ve played hundreds of MMO’s over the years and usually have 3 MMO’s and a handful of FPS games that I play at any one point in time. Buy to play has worked for the FPS genre for over two decades. When it comes to F2P FPS titles, the games are either not very solid in design and don’t hold the players interest or the games have a cash shop where noskillers buy overpowered armor and weapons to achieve an unfair advantage. I’d much rather buy a game for $60 and have unfettered access to my game at any time it pleases me to play it and with a fair and equal shot at winning. As far as MMO’s, I paid for Aion when it was sub, and it was a crap game grind fest. When they decided to go F2P they changed a lot of game based on user feedback and improved the overall quality of the game. I bought Diablo 3, and it sucks compared to it’s free counterpart Path of Exile. When I preorded a stupid $70 expansion for WoW I only played the game for a couple weeks and then I gave my account to a friend because the game was boring and was just overhyped. So moral of the story is there is nothing wrong with F2P as far as MMO’s go, and I think that if it were not for the Pay to Win cash shops that FPS games too could probably get by with the new model, but subscription based games are over rated and highly disappointing.

          • justsaying on September 2, 2013

            A problem with your idea of how b2p works because it does for FPS is like saying Ice Cream is nice, just because it is.
            FPS have an extremely limited scope of things you can do, for almost every game of its type you are running and shooting, capturing and shooting, slashing hacking and running. Even the FPS type of RPG doesn’t have much more going for it than that. So to stick with FPS we’ll feature Call of Duty style FPS.
            You have select game modes, sometimes these games never once update the game mode in favor of equipment patches, which is ok for them. However that means the developer never once has to worry about a huge new expansion that is consistent with everything around it before release. Then a constant flow of multi-game servers each running short games that reset themselves at intervals.
            That is great for a B2P model due to its simplicity and hell, all you need to do is give the keys to the community and they’ll go wild creating things that you don’t even need to bother with, you just need to fix a glitch here or there.
            An MMO however does not have the ability to enjoy such easy luxury. You have players who will tear it all apart if their favorite game’s not up to standard with the rest of the game. WoW itself is suffering from it due to the change in tone for MoP.
            Every MMO cannot always survive alongside overhyped and severely Pay to win Free to Play games. So they either struggle along till the game succeeds/fails via microtransaction updates or actual game development, or they fail.. hard.. in the first year.

            To maybe make a better connection between MMO’s and FPS, One is a self contained wormhole of fun and carnage. It has been built and designed for quick action and lots of gameplay in a very short amount of time. The Other is crafted so that you spend the most amount of time in all areas of the game, to help you sink into the world before you.

            You are an FPS player, its obvious and generally not impressive as your style of gameplay is built to amuse you for minutes instead of hours. So you saying subscription is over rated is like a Cow not liking hamburger, its a duh moment and you know it.

      • justsaying on August 27, 2013

        who are you to say no game is worth buying? let alone over again and again per month. Every game is worth it IF and only if the company that has developed it and the company thats producing it give a damn. Allods online is worth paying for if anything because it might get better improvements quicker. WoW is not worth it, as it hasn’t had anything that isn’t scripted to happen in years, On top of WoW having an odd form of cash shop.

        As gamers we seem entitled that everything we get is 100% working and ready. Even a Subway or WalMart has no idea what troubles they will be getting day to day let alone month to month. They can only handle it all by knowing via economists that they have another month to operate if not another quarter.

        F2P might be the future, its also riddled with gold farmers, bots, DDoS attacks and much much more. While B2P is nice it still gets that Pay Wall that not everyone can cope with. P2P has all the disadvantages of F2P just in a LONGER time frame, AND B2P with that Pay Wall expectation.

        Until your internet buddies decide to stop making other peoples enjoyment happen, the faster F2P is a total viable option. I will NOT play any F2P game that basically griefing is a legitimate and uncontrolled past time in it. At least in a B2P and P2P you get a nice safety net where you are paying for a game, and you will get the support of the company against jackasses.

        Yes not every P2P game has that, either due to age or just plain the company behind it. Just like not every F2P and B2P game is stereotypical. However more often than not, using the largest games of each category, everything is true what i said.

        It will eventually become a better industry, but do we want to sacrifice the industry for the whims of people from the ages of 16-30 who have grown up with ground breaking games and all they are getting is Forsaken World or Firefall, which both of them are sub-par for what subject matter and game type are staples in the industry.

  47. Brandon Losch on August 27, 2013

    I enjoyed this very much Jason, However I think its a bit one sided towards who you are pointing it towards .. Waiting for the FF fan boys 2 come saying ur bashing on Yoshida.

    • Neal on August 28, 2013

      Well he basically calls the man uneducated in terms of business acumen. That is bashing. What really bothers me though is that he took that quote out of context from the point Yoshida was trying to make. Yoshida basically laid out the benefits to both models, and explained why it worked better for the game they were developing to be p2p. Lets not forget that FFXI has been going 10 years now and just put out a new expansion a few months ago. Very few mmos can say that.

      It’s presumptuous at best and moronic at worst to think that SE doesn’t know how to manage their own company.

      • Ein on August 28, 2013

        Its not presumptuous to assume that SE doesn’t know how to manage their own company when they have reported continual losses.Not to mention that their former CEO that stepped down because of those losses became Chairman of the board which oversees the business aspect of Enix. Just google it if you don’t believe me.

      • Jason Winter on August 28, 2013

        I’ll admit I took a bit of a shot at the man, in the attempt at a little light-hearted humor. Then again, so did the person whose post inspired it, and he’s in charge of development of a major MMO.

        If this is the reason he, as you say, “explained why it worked better for the game they were developing to be p2p,” it’s still faulty logic, and that’s true whether you’re a college dropout saying it or someone with an MBA.

        • Neal on August 28, 2013

          @Ein: I’m referencing SE’s longterm success with the p2p model (FFXI), not their overall business policies. I could be mistaken, but I don’t see any f2p games continuing to release the quality and quantity of content that XI has over the last 10 years. That doesn’t mean they can’t. It just means that the p2p model has worked for them and continues to work for them.

          @Mr. Winter: The reason isn’t ‘as I say.’ That’s what he was doing in the interview you snipped that quote from. I understand it’s standard practice in jounalism (or in this case blogging) to quote what you need and leave the rest, but that doesn’t make it any less crass. I get the point you’re trying to make, but you’re doing so at the sake of honesty.

          Also, I’m sure someone snarkier than me has already pointed this out to you, but buffets are restaurants that charge every customer the same price.

          • Neal on August 28, 2013

            After rereading the article, you state that Mr. Schubert, funny enough, agreed with Yoshida regarding predictions in f2p earnings predictions. So you state that Schubert and Yoshida are essentially in agreement, yet SE is too stupid to figure it out? I really don’t get the point you’re trying to make with this article.

  48. Tudor on August 27, 2013

    F2p is the future and the sooner they get this the better 🙂

    • zsharp on August 27, 2013

      F2P is the future of what? Have you looked at the game list on this site? There are Hundreds of games that are still active, but dying, and being shutdown all of the time because of people like you supporting the free-to-play racket. Massed produced in China, Taiwan, and unfortunately Korea (the only one I could ever support). If you don’t get what I am saying yet, these games are SHIT~ 90% of the time. Why don’t you ask the BomberBros what games they play off their shitty list, and tell them to be honest. Get a f*** clue man.

      • KainDarkfire on August 28, 2013

        That seems to be completely unrelated to F2P market against Sub market.

        If a game is bad, there is no reason for people to pay or even play it for more than a few hours. You yourself have probably bought games that you found out were crap and never touched again- the only difference here is that you already paid for it.

      • blablabla on August 30, 2013

        You get a clue
        No one cares about the mass F2P MMO production on Korea
        Those games are dying because even the developers don’t care about those games they are just made for money, most of them are grind based pay to win games with no production quality and nothing into them
        If someone would made an ACTUALLY DECENT free to play MMORPG people would play it and pay it and it wouldn’t be shit and it wouldn’t die and it would earn well like League of Legends

        • Cleru on September 15, 2013

          *cough* Aion *cough*

    • Medown on August 28, 2013

      This is complete and utter bullshit. The only reason pay to play mmo’s have a hard time is because they have to compete with world of warcraft, which is nearly impossible. So the games have to be DAMN good before people cancel their wow sub and stay subbed to the new game. Now with wow subs in decline, we’ll see more pay to play games coming in the near future. So don’t talk this crap thanks.

      • RyuKaiser on August 28, 2013

        It’s no accident that all the games that had subs went F2P within a few months. WoW is one of the only games that can afford to keep pure subs, and even put in it’s own cash shop, and they’ve already acknowledged that WoW will one day go F2P. You people screaming that subs bring you good games have no idea what you’re talking about. Vanguard, Hellgate London, Global Agenda, APB, all had monthly subs, all were terrible games.

        If they want to survive, they have to adapt. The new culture is all about flexibility. A good game will continue to get money on the merit it’s a good, fun game. They’ll find a way to make money. They can release new classes, expansion content, etc, and keep getting money from those. Hell, I’m all for B2P, and I’d be playing FFXIV right now if it was B2P. But it isn’t, and they’re banking on the hardcore crowd to fund their servers and give them profits.

        • allacore69 on August 28, 2013

          All those games you just listed are awful and always has been.

          • Dooh on August 30, 2013

            The secret world, Aion, Lineage II, HON, SWTOR, FORGE, TERA, u need more examples puss?

      • buggy on August 28, 2013

        this is fking stupid to say…they compete with wow,that is not so true,many games are good and not all play wow,most ppl that play wow are veterans and few new players,most of them give up till lvl 20,so you say P2P will be in future…i dont think so,as you see many P2P games went F2P,so if u are P2P player and think those are not P2W its your problem,my opinion is just F2P because if you pay for a game and you don`t like it,next game appearing from that company you will not play it anymore so…if its F2P,you can play it without paying and if you like stuff from market or shop,you will buy some items or fashion from there,are many things that F2P is superior or inferior to many games but its most acceptable to be F2P in these days

        • Medown on August 28, 2013

          Believe what you want, but trust me. Pay to play will come back with glory, and then finally we will get good mmo’s again.

          • safdfda on August 28, 2013

            so you are saying f2p games are always bad? then you are an idiot

          • Medown on August 28, 2013

            No, free to play games are mediocre at best

          • TwizzyBG on August 28, 2013

            Dude LoL is F2P 😀 and its one of the most popular games in the World 😀

          • Nope on August 29, 2013

            Sorry bro , not many ppl would pay for a sub these days , thats not gonna happen .

          • QQmoar on August 30, 2013

            keep dreaming babe

        • Xaenex on August 28, 2013

          I find it best not to feed trolls 😛

          • Cavoer on August 28, 2013

            There not always bad just about 99% make the others look bad lol.

    • jeremy on August 30, 2013

      So true!

      • woot on August 30, 2013

        p2p for life ff 14 will always be play to play and should stay like that it has crushed expectations and alrdy has a bigger player base than many “free to play” games

        • hammerfist on August 31, 2013

          How can you praise FF14 when it bombed so bad they had to recall it and go back to dev/beta? i love square… i own every FF that has a number(other than FF14), and have beat most of them. i even played FFXI for a while. it was fun(other than down leveling if you die to much) then i realized how stupid it is to pay for a game…then pay for the right to play it. why give $60+ for a game so the dev can go “oh yeah now i want $15 a month for the rest of your life, and if you ever quite paying the game you bought will be useless.” that is like buying a car outright and the dealer asking for payments anyway or it will get repossessed.

          • woot on September 1, 2013

            ff 14 a realm reborn that was just released is only $40 and players from the ori launch got it for free. its an amazing game and extremely popular atm all the worlds are so full that people cant even make new chars and the sale of the game has been temporarily put on hold till the new worlds are released next week so u need to get ur facts straight bub

        • Whicker on September 3, 2013

          Dream on, It will die or go F2P like every other sub game to come out in the last 5 years. F2P is the future B2P is also acceptable.

          • morteetdabo on September 10, 2013

            no, yoshida already said he will shut the game down before going to f2p. people keep saying FFXI will go f2p and look at it. 10 years old and still has sub.just because others have failed doesnt mean all will fail. ff14 is purely amazing. simple as that.

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